Was travelling on return to US from overseas.
Travelling on US passports; 1 member senior aged PLT (non road warrior) , and me EXP young son.
We were issued all boarding passes for the daytime flight to US - so far so good - went to passport control. Different lines; I made it past passport control. Family member cannot exit country. No treaty for dual nationals - must exit with local country passport. Local passport expired. Immigration officials were non-helpful. Decided to get AA involved - I run over to Admiral's club and request that AA send a rep. There is express passport office at airport that issues passport in 30'. Return to passport control, AA rep shows up 5' later - AA says both pax been rebooked for flight 9 hrs later. Happened to be same lead agent that did check-in process.
Considering the check-in oversight; we arrived 12hrs later and on overnite flight.
Now, what's AA responsibility in all this? granted problem is all triggered by pax documents. From that point, I did most of legwork to make up the disruption. I.e. requested 4hr layover versus rebooked 6.5; requested that already approved VIP upgrade and sticker upgrades to be honored on new flights; which partially were'nt; followed agent to luggage area to get luggage, booked city hotel for daytime rest; transport; had to ask MIA staff to relist us on upg list as disrupted pax w/ companion of EXP; wait in MIA for last minute upg clearing at the gate.
Called EXP line from overseas for them to at least make the situation 'whole'
I don't think AA went the extra mile to makeup for their oversight in proper docs verification, and on the further attemps to contact them to improve upon the situation.
Their answer, fax us when trip is over.
So what does the forum consensus say?
1st time poster, so please be easy on my rant.
Signed,
Road warrior that has seen its share of delays, mech issues, crew timeout, etc - but so far gave AA the benefit of the doubt.
Called EXP line from overseas for them to at least make the situation 'whole'
I don't think AA went the extra mile to makeup for their oversight in proper docs verification, and on the further attemps to contact them to improve upon the situation.
What were you expecting AA to do? Obviously the responsibility for having the correct documents resides on the passenger (as you stated). They rebooked you for a later flight, and I assume at no extra cost to you.
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The passenger is responsible for ensuring they are compliant with all rules of the visiting country and that they are properly documented prior to entering passport control. In addition, if a passenger is not properly documented and misses their flight, it is the passenger responsibility to pay for any changes fees or additional fares if so stated in their fare rule of the ticket they are traveling under. If they airline is due such fees, but doesn't collect them, then good for the passenger. But expecting compensation in a situaiton like this is absurd.
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AA owes you nothing
Couldn't agree more! Sorry, but your sense of entitlement, in spite of your obvious egregious error is something that ends up giving all FF a bad name. Personally, I'd still be kicking myself for making such a mistake, and would be embarrassed to even admit to making it, let alone asking what comeback I might have on AA on this one!
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I had to read this three times to find what you think AA did wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AAflyer9999
I don't think AA went the extra mile to makeup for their oversight in proper docs verification, and on the further attemps to contact them to improve upon the situation.
Suppose AA had flagged the document issue at check-in. What would have been different, vs finding out a few minutes later at passport control? And if no difference, then why is anything due?
In any case, isn't AA's responsibility as far as documents simply to ensure that you'll be allowed to enter the destination country, so they don't get fined and have to fly you back? Since you both held valid US passports, you would have been able to enter the US upon arrival there.
Does AA have responsibility as far as exit control?
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Thanks all,
I'm trying to gain perspective from the point of view of passenger versus airline's. As part of the international check in process - documents are checked and boarding pass is issued - with 'Docs OK' label. In this case a boarding pass was issued - so in my estimation AA has some secondary duty to help.
As sidenote, if AA boards a pax to US, and pax is not able to enter US due to travel docs, AA is fined.
As an additional sidemark, when we met again with agent, agent said 'I missed it' Had this oversight not occurred - an express passport could have been made prior to flight - and avoiding lost time w/ passport control. Granted, it is still the traveler's duty to have uptodate docs.
The delay itself was significant, arrived at destination 12hrs beyond schedule for a total travel time of 45hrs. (including travel time to originating airport) - even though rebooked - was not rebooked completely in class of service of original ticket.
Not sure I'd agree that AA owes nothing - particularly as they did issue boarding pass in error - had this error resulted in denied entry at US port of entry - matter would have been more complicated yet.
I appreciate the replies from different sides as I am the overall travel experience did not meet my expectation.
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I think you owe something to AA for the extra costs incurred for your companion's lack of proper documentation. I don't think it's fair for others to shoulder costs that were directly related to this.
As you mentioned, the only reason why any airline may do a check is when a country fines them (and/or forces them to fly the passenger back at their expense) if the customer is accepted without having specified documents. No country I know fines an airline for issuing a boarding pass to someone who doesn't have the correct exit documentation, nor is there any statutory requirement not to do so (you can even get a boarding pass online).
I am very saddened by the lack of responsibility people take for their own actions.
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If check-in agent had found the issue (and did the other party show BOTH passports?) the issue would still have existed and there still would have been a a delay entailed, IMO.
It is the responsibility of the traveller to know the terms and conditions of travel using their respective passports. AA has NO responsibility at all in this instance, and they were decent to help out.
It may sound harsh, but I believe we need to assume responsibility for knowing the rules, and especially if we are dual citizens. We might get cleared - and then arrive at the other end with improper clearance, to be required to pay for and be put on the next flight back home.
Again, please do not take it personally; you asked for our opinions, this is mine, arrived at from well over six decades of international travel with as many as three passports at one time or another.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AAflyer9999
Hello All,
Long time reader, 1st time poster.
Looking for some wisdom from road warriors.
Was travelling on return to US from overseas.
Travelling on US passports; 1 member senior aged PLT (non road warrior) , and me EXP young son.
We were issued all boarding passes for the daytime flight to US - so far so good - went to passport control. Different lines; I made it past passport control. Family member cannot exit country. No treaty for dual nationals - must exit with local country passport. Local passport expired. Immigration officials were non-helpful. Decided to get AA involved - I run over to Admiral's club and request that AA send a rep. There is express passport office at airport that issues passport in 30'. Return to passport control, AA rep shows up 5' later - AA says both pax been rebooked for flight 9 hrs later. Happened to be same lead agent that did check-in process.
Considering the check-in oversight; we arrived 12hrs later and on overnite flight.
Now, what's AA responsibility in all this? granted problem is all triggered by pax documents. From that point, I did most of legwork to make up the disruption. I.e. requested 4hr layover versus rebooked 6.5; requested that already approved VIP upgrade and sticker upgrades to be honored on new flights; which partially were'nt; followed agent to luggage area to get luggage, booked city hotel for daytime rest; transport; had to ask MIA staff to relist us on upg list as disrupted pax w/ companion of EXP; wait in MIA for last minute upg clearing at the gate.
Called EXP line from overseas for them to at least make the situation 'whole'
I don't think AA went the extra mile to makeup for their oversight in proper docs verification, and on the further attemps to contact them to improve upon the situation.
Their answer, fax us when trip is over.
So what does the forum consensus say?
1st time poster, so please be easy on my rant.
Signed,
Road warrior that has seen its share of delays, mech issues, crew timeout, etc - but so far gave AA the benefit of the doubt.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AAflyer9999
As part of the international check in process - documents are checked and boarding pass is issued - with 'Docs OK' label. In this case a boarding pass was issued - so in my estimation AA has some secondary duty to help.
From what you describe, a US citizen was boarding a flight destined for the US, and presented a US passport a check-in. Their docs were indeed OK. How was the person at the AA counter supposed to know that the passenger was also a national of the originating country if that document was not presented by the passenger? Should AA ask every passenger if they are a dual citizen at check-in? Should they ask only if the person "looks" like they could be a dual national?
There are many things that could prevent a departing passenger from passing through exit Immigration: perhaps they overstayed their visa - should AA check everyone's visa upon departure to make sure it's not expired? Perhaps there is a warrant out for their arrest? In some countries, perhaps they are subject to a civil "no departure" order for failure to pay taxes?
In short, as others have already stated, it is the passenger's sole responsibility to ensure that they have the proper travel documents and comply with immigration regulations. The carrier has a duty to the destination country, but not the passenger, to perform basic document checks to ensure that they don't transport someone that's obviously not admissible to the destination country, which is why they check documents and the "Docs OK" stamp is just an indication to downline personnel that someone has done this check.
"had this error resulted in denied entry at US port of entry - matter would have been more complicated yet."
The so-called "error" here would have had no effect on arrival in the United States. U.S. citizens who hold dual citizenship are not permitted to seek re-entry with a foreign passport; they must present a U.S. passport.
As sidenote, if AA boards a pax to US, and pax is not able to enter US due to travel docs, AA is fined.
AA may be fined, but often AA is not fined even when CBP denies admission of a person to the US because of problems with the travel docs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by guv1976
U.S. citizens who hold dual citizenship are not permitted to seek re-entry with a foreign passport; they must present a U.S. passport.
1. Many US citizens re-enter the US without a US passport and most do so in compliance with the body law and/or without negative legal consequences.
2. US citizens who hold dual-citizenship are still flying to the US with foreign passports and entering the US without presenting a US passport. Paying for US ESTA is often part of the picture, but not always -- and most do so without negative legal consequences.
3. A foreign passport is sometimes taken as evidence of identity of a US citizen.
4. A bearer of a foreign passport who is a US citizen is to be admitted into the US, as the US is required to do, even if the US citizen is not in possession of a US passport at a US port of entry and has merely arrived with a foreign passport.
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Passport control & AA check-in process
