Oct 29, 2012, 4:35 pm
Kingfisher / IT oneworld 10 Feb 2012 join - [licence to fly lost 1/1/13]
Jan 15, 2012, 10:31 am
#31
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http://www.thestreet.com/story/11347...s-analyst.html
Jan 15, 2012, 10:53 am
#32
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FWAAA, in the recent DEL thread, referenced an article from The Street that included: "On Chicago-Delhi route, for instance, MaAdoo estimated the loss at $40 million annually, noting that "American should not be ashamed if it were to eliminate service to India.""
http://www.thestreet.com/story/11347...s-analyst.html
http://www.thestreet.com/story/11347...s-analyst.html
All all the "prestigious" routes lose money. I wonder what's next then.
Jan 15, 2012, 11:01 am
#33
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The question is "do a lot of carriers with 14-15 hour flights from/to India do well"?
Most 14-15 hour flights don't lose money or they wouldn't be flown in today's environment expensive flying environment. Most of those 14-15 hour flights are not "prestige" routes anymore.
Jan 15, 2012, 1:01 pm
#34
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The question is "do a lot of carriers with 14-15 hour flights from/to India do well"?
Most 14-15 hour flights don't lose money or they wouldn't be flown in today's environment expensive flying environment. Most of those 14-15 hour flights are not "prestige" routes anymore.
Jan 15, 2012, 2:17 pm
#35
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DL gave up the BOM flights as well. The EU flights may have better "yields".
Jan 15, 2012, 3:22 pm
#36
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Jan 15, 2012, 5:16 pm
#37
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Thanks! I didn't have the time to look it up, as I was out the door.
Some of them might be termed "placeholder" routes, preserving competition and customer awareness, sometimes slots that the airline figures might be of strategic importance, etc.
I suspect with the sickness of Kingfisher they may have measured the amount of connecting traffic, and as you say the percentage of VFR and upgrades, possibilities of future growth and strategic value and found it all wanting.
Perhaps AA will put 787s on at least some of these routes and be able to eke out a margin, but that's some time down the path.
FWAAA, in the recent DEL thread, referenced an article from The Street that included: "On Chicago-Delhi route, for instance, Ma(c)Adoo estimated the loss at $40 million annually, noting that "American should not be ashamed if it were to eliminate service to India.""
http://www.thestreet.com/story/11347...s-analyst.html
http://www.thestreet.com/story/11347...s-analyst.html
Some of them might be termed "placeholder" routes, preserving competition and customer awareness, sometimes slots that the airline figures might be of strategic importance, etc.
I suspect with the sickness of Kingfisher they may have measured the amount of connecting traffic, and as you say the percentage of VFR and upgrades, possibilities of future growth and strategic value and found it all wanting.
Perhaps AA will put 787s on at least some of these routes and be able to eke out a margin, but that's some time down the path.
Not really. Most airlines lose money on 14-15 hour routes, which largely tend to be prestige routes.
SQ is an exception with their nonstop LAX and EWR flights, which are both completely J class. To fly in Economy or First, you have to fly their flight from New York (JFK) with a stop in FRA, or LAX with a stop at NRT. This is because Y fares just don't get high enough yields for flights of this length.
AA's problem was that it didn't have high enough yields to make money - too many pax were low yielding VFR traffic. AA could make money on this kind of route in a configuration that was heavily premium cabin oriented, and only if they managed to fill the plane.
SQ is an exception with their nonstop LAX and EWR flights, which are both completely J class. To fly in Economy or First, you have to fly their flight from New York (JFK) with a stop in FRA, or LAX with a stop at NRT. This is because Y fares just don't get high enough yields for flights of this length.
AA's problem was that it didn't have high enough yields to make money - too many pax were low yielding VFR traffic. AA could make money on this kind of route in a configuration that was heavily premium cabin oriented, and only if they managed to fill the plane.
Jan 15, 2012, 5:25 pm
#38
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Speaking of connections, I wonder if IT will have OW award availability on domestic flights. I am thinking of flying EY but I need to go to one of the few Indian cities that EY doesn't fly to, so I will have to connect in DEL or BOM.
(Along with 292/293, AA had codeshare connecting flights on 9W, and a few award seats were generally available. Those 9W awards will presumably vanish now.)
(Along with 292/293, AA had codeshare connecting flights on 9W, and a few award seats were generally available. Those 9W awards will presumably vanish now.)
Jan 15, 2012, 6:43 pm
#39
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Says who?
Last edited by Austinrunner; Jan 15, 2012 at 6:49 pm
Jan 15, 2012, 7:12 pm
#40
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SeeBuyFly, interesting! I've not heard of an award seat being available on a codeshare. Please tell us how...
Jan 15, 2012, 7:32 pm
#41
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AA codeshared on certain 9W domestic flights (those connecting to 292/293---not all domestic flights), and AAdvantage awards were available on those 9W flights (not under the codeshare flight number, naturally).
Neither the connecting domestic codeshares nor the connecting award availability have any reason to exist going forward, since 292/293 is being cancelled.
Last edited by SeeBuyFly; Jan 15, 2012 at 7:44 pm
Jan 15, 2012, 8:00 pm
#42
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Well, that's your opinion (and speculation). All that matters, however, is what AA and 9W decide to do. It should be noted that AA codeshares on the BRU -> India flights operated by 9W; so, if there's a good reason to continue those codeshares, there probably is a good reason to continue the intra-India codeshares on 9W.
Last edited by Austinrunner; Jan 15, 2012 at 8:51 pm
Jan 15, 2012, 11:21 pm
#43
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Kingfisher seems to be confident to get into ow. they've started advertising already as if they are a member. have a look here
http://boardingarea.com/blogs/livefr...oneworld-logo/
http://boardingarea.com/blogs/livefr...oneworld-logo/
Jan 16, 2012, 6:14 am
#44
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In economy class, the 9W flights from BRU to India are pretty lousy -- it's gotten worse over the years since 9W first started using BRU. And with AA killing off ORD-BRU, JFK-BRU is the primary feed to AA-codeshared 9W long-haul flights.
9W award seat availability was already very lousy, even for 9W elites. Not a whole lot more to vanish as far as my redemption interests are concerned.
IT is less reliable than 9W and not so go great for award seat availability too.
About ORD-DEL, the seasonal nature of the premium fare traffic and of the non-VFR leisure traffic seems to have been factors in the route's economics. Yet CO seems to be able to make two non-stops from the US to India work for it.
Speaking of connections, I wonder if IT will have OW award availability on domestic flights. I am thinking of flying EY but I need to go to one of the few Indian cities that EY doesn't fly to, so I will have to connect in DEL or BOM.
(Along with 292/293, AA had codeshare connecting flights on 9W, and a few award seats were generally available. Those 9W awards will presumably vanish now.)
(Along with 292/293, AA had codeshare connecting flights on 9W, and a few award seats were generally available. Those 9W awards will presumably vanish now.)
IT is less reliable than 9W and not so go great for award seat availability too.
About ORD-DEL, the seasonal nature of the premium fare traffic and of the non-VFR leisure traffic seems to have been factors in the route's economics. Yet CO seems to be able to make two non-stops from the US to India work for it.
Jan 23, 2012, 9:24 pm
#45
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