If you want a gift from SQ, speak to the Inflight Supervisor, he always finds me something better than OZ's cheap gifts. Sorry, I'm a huge SQ fan.
So far my OZ's "cheap gift" were actually come from Versace Rosenthal and Wedgwood. Go to Macy's home department and check out the price, you would not find those are "cheap" at all.
Btw, when I was flying SQ, the Inflight Supervisor did find me a china tea cup as gift, which I can get in from the F lounge as well.
So there are couple older (70’s) Gaijin in 1AC, possible Nihonjin PLT/DIA type in 1D, 1F Blocked, Gaijin Diamond (Schoflyer) in 1G, and I’ll eat my laptop of the Nihonjin in 1Kwas not a DIA, CIP, or VIP.
If you read the thread about speaking Japanese or English with the FA, you know that I am and speak Japanese onboard on NH aircraft. So I’m really not a good control to the experiment. However, 1AC were perfect English only Gaijin subjects with which to evaluate. I figured for sure they were UA awards when I boarded. I wondered, what kind of service experience would they receive?
Well taxi, takeoff, etc.
C service commences.
My big test for a crew is if my request for Asahi during the Green Tea/Champagne results in an immediate return to the galley. Today’s crew was really firing on all cylinder’s . Right on! But somehow I feel I’ve earned this privilege as a DIA . So the next thing I do is launch the Windows Vista 64bit SP1 installer, crank up the volume on my ipod and begin the observation.
Well the next thing I know the Chief Purser is chatting them up. OK. A few minutes later, she’s adjusting their foot rests for them. They are receiving personal previews of the meal choices, etc. I’m thinking this guy must be a “big” DIA . Much bigger than a bottom dwelling DIA like myself.
The guy in 1D is sufficiently fawned over despite his "Dont bother me. My eyes are bad and I need to sit really close to the PTV." Attitude. The older DIA in 1K wearing shades and a black knit “beanie” was on his own service schedule. He slept first and took his meal late into the flight. My Asahi kept arriving on schedule. My FA even went to the Y galley looking for “cold” ones without my asking. However, my inferiority complex was beginning to take root.
So much the experiment. It was a DIA matsuri (festival) in row 1. FA’s were running around the cabin bending over backwards for the elites, yada, yada, yada. My whole post was riddled full of holes because of course NH caters to it’s Elites and protects the front cabins. The Horror!
But I was short one critical bit of data. You see I needed to confirm that 1AC were in fact big DIAs with NH. Because if per chance they weren’t, the results here would be upside down.
Then in a flash, it happened. 1C went to the lav and I figured I could chat her up on her way out. I asked her if she was enjoying her flight and she said, “Yes it’s wonderful.” I asked her if they flew NH regularly, because I had noticed the exceptional level of service they were receiving. It was their first NH flight.
I was totally blown away.
I immediately explained the satellites at NRT and assured her I would ask the chief purser to call ahead confirm their NH connecting gate information and arrange some transportation if they liked.
1 hour before arrival, we had a our arrival gate in the 50’s which was an easy connect for our West Coast flights.
I made my usual sprint to the lounge for Kiri and Soda Crackers. My flight was boarding before I had my first sip of beer. Sweet Connention to a Suite
1AC had a great NH experience. I hope the enjoyed their connecting flight as well.
Oh and the 36 yer old biotech professional sitting in 2A on the my transpac fared pretty well in terms of service & experience both on and off NH. He was on some sort of coprorate paid F "bonus trip" to a manufacturer. First time to Japan. Stayed at the Park Hyatt, etc.
Cheers,
Scho
__________________
"It's my job to win!"--Lance Armstrong
Very interesting and humorous experience, Scho, and narrated well!
But how do you explain it? Is this typical, top ANA C service? Is this the Japanese concept of showing tremendous respect to older people? Is this just a crew that was "really firing on all cylinders"?
Leave it to you to turn down Champagne, just to test their service! Ha! Isn't it wonderful to be abe to confidently fly on a carrier that still understands and celebrates the model of truly customer-oriented service?!
Over three return trips I have taken in 2008 between USA and Asia, I have noticed that one flight attendant has actually been in my C cabin on three separate flights! (twice on the NRT-BKK route and once on IAD-NRT) And she remembered me this time when it happened for the third time! She exuberantly told me how this was the third time, and reeled the flights off, while her colleagues watched with amusement and laughter. And she is a great FA, too! She remembered my drink preferences and took very good care of me, almost slowing down to smile at me, everytime she passed my seat. Fortunately, I was able to remember her first name, which of course isnot on her tag (more oooos and other strange coos from her colleagues...)
NH rocks!
FF
Quote:
Originally Posted by schoflyer
Case study:
NH 954
777-200ER (No F-cabin…rats!)
So there are couple older (70’s) Gaijin in 1AC, possible Nihonjin PLT/DIA type in 1D, 1F Blocked, Gaijin Diamond (Schoflyer) in 1G, and I’ll eat my laptop of the Nihonjin in 1Kwas not a DIA, CIP, or VIP.
If you read the thread about speaking Japanese or English with the FA, you know that I am and speak Japanese onboard on NH aircraft. So I’m really not a good control to the experiment. However, 1AC were perfect English only Gaijin subjects with which to evaluate. I figured for sure they were UA awards when I boarded. I wondered, what kind of service experience would they receive?...
I explain it down to the cultural level. There is a huge section of the population in Japan that is extremely motivated to work. Service and respect are huge elements in Japanese culture. It's just not airlines and it's just not Japan. IMHO Asian cultures in general places a much higher importance on respect. I believe that these elements are just less prevalent in the US. Hence US carries find it difficult to challenge these standards.
From this pool NH and JAL have their pick. You must also consider that the position of a flight attendant is a sought after and well respected position in Japan. Only the creme de la creme are admitted into these programs.
RE: The Champagne.
1) It's not Krug.
2) It's not about testing their service either tough, it's just my standard request. It's written down somewhere and the best of the best review this information pre-flight. I'm a beer drinker at heart. Seat location also be a variable here. But as NH elite I feel i've earned the right not to have to wait for a beer until the cart comes out. Heck anyone in C with this request should be brought one immediately. Status does give me the confidence to chase down my beverage if it doesn't appear in a reasonable amount of time.
I've had all types of results. The immediate about-face and get me an Asahi. The stick your head back in the galley and someone else brings it. The just a minute. The make me wait until they bring the cart out. I've pre-ordered which always seems to work. And most recently on NH953 the "Hi Chief Purser-san. We flew together end of last year. By the way I asked for an Asahi when I was offered the ocha and champagne and it hasn't come yet" BTW the remainder of the service was immaculate.
Yes, I do understand that I am asking a FA holding an entire tray full of drinks for something that she is not currently offering. I'm always very polite. It seems like the more experienced the FA the better the result.
Cheers,
Scho
__________________
"It's my job to win!"--Lance Armstrong
My comments were certainly not meant to be critical... only in gentle jest! I, like you, do believe that NH Elite should be treated well, and Diamonds are pretty close to the very top. (Gosh... I'd love to know more details about the undisclosed ranks... Big Diamonds... VIP... maybe I am an airline status pig, I don't know...) And yes, at least for me, it would be a very different story if it were Krug. I'll have to wait for the upgrades I guess!
It amuses me how every request from the smallest to the most cumbersome seem to be magically accommodated on these Asian carriers, while even basic ones seem impossible on NA airlines these days. I find that frustrating, but I guess that's why so many of us are crossing over. For all kinds of reasons, some of which you have described, we are just not able to compete with service standards and overall quality.
My comments were certainly not meant to be critical... only in gentle jest!
FF
FF:
Comments take as intended.
I just felt I needed to clarify because I was making some fairly bold and elitist comments. Not at at the expense of other's here (at least I hope nobody took it that way), more from the holding NH to a higher standard based on my status within its FFP.
Without my clarification maybe I come across as a pompous jerk? Maybe I don't? I'm just trying to analyze service within the framework of variables that are pertinent to my experience.
I'm a total dream customer.
I do things for myself. I'm easy going. I don't talk down to NH staff. (You see this a lot and while culturally tolerated, my skin crawls when I see it.)
Case in point. Domestic flight HND-TOY was delayed due to weather. Status doesn't get me there any sooner when HND is using flow control. So I just hunker down for the wait.
But that "sloppy" shacho type who was running late didn't seem to get it. Crying like a baby at the counter. Taking a single brochure from the display at the gate, dropping on the floor, and then ordering the NH staff to come around to the front of the counter and clean up the mess. That speaks more politely to his dog I'm sure. That was April 8th and I watched it happen. Glad I don't work for him.
I'm more along the lines of the customer who drops 2 packs of soda crackers of my plate (which had the appearance of Soda Cracker and Kiri mountain) on my way back to my seat in the lounge. Staff descends on the fallen morsels and I'm promised replacements delivered to my seat. I thought this was a bit over the top and I said, "It's ok. I 'll eat them. They're wrapped."
I have few and relative simple requests LL (PJ's) and Asahi being the main two. Sometimes LL are waiting for me in my seat. This would be the gold standard. The FA/CP did her job. She looked at my profile. (Or she assumed that Gaijin neeeded LL )
Time for lunch.
Cheers,
Scho
__________________
"It's my job to win!"--Lance Armstrong
I'm with you on that. I feel so savagely brutalized by the constantly shoddy service I have received in NA so many times, that the FAs on ANA seem like angels to me. And I must confess - I treat them as such. I am excessively polite and am never demanding. I am also quick to compliment them when things are excellent. Sometimes, they seem confused, as I do not think it is comon in Japanese culture to say too much when things are great. I think it is the expectation there.
I too have seen people condescend to the FAs and I hate it. Of course, there is a tendency for premium passengers to want to be babied in business or first class. I have seen FAs speak to corporate giants in F, like they are children, with exaggerated facial expressions... and of course, these beacons of power seem to willingly relinquish everything for that brief moment of time, as though they yearn longingly to have yet one more minute in the womb. Perhaps this too is part of Asian culture. I've often wondered why my partner babies me as well, but I must confess that I have now grown to like it...
Ahhh... to be a carefree and innocent child once again...
Without my clarification maybe I come across as a pompous jerk? Maybe I don't? I'm just trying to analyze service within the framework of variables that are pertinent to my experience.
Actually, I think from your posts, you come across as someone who is down-to-earth, with a great sense of humor.
I have been enjoying this thread a lot - we are flying ORD-NRT in NH C in a few weeks, and these are helping me to be patient while I wait in anticipation.
And I'm not going to leave my post open to attack by the PJ Police either!
Thus, laundered must me included in the details below
Laundered PJ's are available to F Pax.
A properly laundered sweater is the business class cabinwear that is available.
Along with slippers that are labled with the following in English and Japanese:
"These Disposable slippers are provided for your exclusive use. You are welcome to take them with you. Thank you."
This taking stuff with you seems to be a major bone of contention. Some feel that being able to take stuff with you is a key component to great service. Some feel that using laundered cabinwear takes away from the experience and are sometimes turned off by it. (Of course they happily jump into laundered bedsheets and robes upon arrival at their hotel without blinking.)
__________________
"It's my job to win!"--Lance Armstrong
Actually, I think from your posts, you come across as someone who is down-to-earth, with a great sense of humor.
Thanks.
You can please some of the people some of the time. All of the people some of the time. But never all of the people all of the time.
This is a tough medium at times. Every reader potentially can have a different take and Elite (ism) has been a touchy subject in the past. I just want to be sure people read/enjoy as intended.
-Scho
__________________
"It's my job to win!"--Lance Armstrong
Just wanted chime in that I've really enjoyed taking this discussion in as an observer. The reports from schoflyer et al are just the sort of thing I've been looking for - a poignant look at the inflight experience with plenty of inferences to the cultural aspect of it all. Marketing literature and SkyTrax reports aren't quite the same.
For me personally, nuances in the concept of service are equally if not more important than the hardware. Emirates and SQ may hold all the stars (and I did enjoy the few flights I had with the latter immensely), and yet, nothing quite compares to the Japanese carriers. At the risk of sounding cheesy I must admit that there is a place in my heart (and budget?) reserved just for them.
I've been loyal to JAL over the past couple of years and am three months away from Sapphire status. That said, I gather that more superlatives are sung in praise of ANA. Any thoughts? Prices are comparable, and my experiences on their main competitor have been nothing short of wonderful. Public qualms about safety lapses are not of huge concern to me. Is it worth the switch? Or should I just keep reading about schoflyer's reports and expect the same things when I get into JGC?
For me personally, nuances in the concept of service are equally if not more important than the hardware. Emirates and SQ may hold all the stars (and I did enjoy the few flights I had with the latter immensely), and yet, nothing quite compares to the Japanese carriers. At the risk of sounding cheesy I must admit that there is a place in my heart (and budget?) reserved just for them.
That does sound cheesy but I like it because I feel the same way, and it is TRUE! (And cheese is not a bad thing, especially if it's delivered by a smiling FA after the meal )
The notion that customer is king is a great one, and most non-Asian carriers cannot uphold such a philosophy. Like you, I have flown in C and F on most Star Alliance Asian carriers and I too love the Japanese concept of service. Nothing compares.
Here is another highly illustrative case:
I recently flew my usual NH 002, NRT-IAD, in C. Priority forward seating, but because I am not yet Diamond, they let me sweat a little and gave me the front on the night before the flight when I checked in elsewhere. (small matter and I will have it corrected by the middle of June) As always, the flight is excellent, I drink a little too much champagne, watch half a movie between bites of Japanese delicacies and far too much sake, and happily pass out. Alas, the breakfast service now, which naturally begins exactly on time. Those who fly this route know that the obsessiveness with which they time the "second meal service" in C is crucial. (You guys in F have a different system... yes, yes, I know, Scho, you're grinning now even more than when you get your Krug!) Shortly after the welcome wake-up drink, the first pre-breakfast drink, the menu orders (from those already awake), and a few breakfast trays, deadly turbulence besieges us and for 76 minutes, all of those angelic FAs with perfect make-up and impeccable manners, are mercilessly belted into their seats. Such "cruel and unusual punishment" for them and for my eyes...
Here is where it gets interesting. I slumped back into relaxation mode, tried not to look at my watch with too much intensity and waited to see what would happen. 76 minutes of valuable breakfast time was eroded so close to the end of the flight. Almost any other carrier would have given up hope and cut several services. (ANA has quite an elaborate second meal service.) If it were a North American carrier, I think they would have left a brown bag at the door for us to pick up on our way out and that would have been breakfast. The seat belt sign goes off, after a reassuring message of apology from the Captain. The FAs are in action mode once again... I mean angel mode. The difference though, is that they are now travelling by rocket-propelled roller blades! Anyone who has seen the FAs in action on this carrier know that their slowest speed is pretty fast. Heck, they have already removed garbage (plastic wrapping) once from customers' seats before the plane even takes off! They are so fast that I sometimes fumble to give them my boarding pass to hang my jacket even when my boarding pass is in my hands! (okay fine, perhaps I fumble because of their disarming smiles) You can imagine what I mean when I say that they moved twice as fast, almost running at times. They did not cancel or even diminish a single service, because that is the Japanese way. They allowed the confused passengers to take time to order (which guy won't look at the menu during 76 minutes of turbulence... but you'd be surprised). They accommodate every request. There is not a single accident, no unnecessary noise, not a single spill. They keep track of everything and the total service occurs as if there was no turbulence at all. They still manage to get me my last minute cup of coffee before landing, they accommodate another customer's request for post-breakfast cognac (in the surreal environment of a Japanese flight, this somehow seems normal, strangely enough), and they even manage to very gently wake up the sleeping lady sitting to my right, exactly 40 minutes before landing, to make sure she does not want breakfast. (She was thrilled they did not forget her.) It was as if nothing could stop them from providing outstanding service - even time itself was no obstacle. And there was no complaining, no rudeness. In fact, there was nothing but smiles on board. That is the essence of ANA, and with the customers reassured, the universe once again felt right...
With service like that, it's no surprise that so many of us happily open our wallets to this company.
I've been loyal to JAL over the past couple of years and am three months away from Sapphire status. That said, I gather that more superlatives are sung in praise of ANA. Any thoughts? Prices are comparable, and my experiences on their main competitor have been nothing short of wonderful. Public qualms about safety lapses are not of huge concern to me. Is it worth the switch? Or should I just keep reading about schoflyer's reports and expect the same things when I get into JGC?
My suggestion would be to base your choice on your schedule and routes. The difference in the level of service alone (if there really is a noticeable difference, which I doubt) is probably not worth switching over. (And I agree that JAL service is wonderful.) If you fly internationally to a lot of destinations, JAL may be your best bet, because JAL has twice the number of flights and many more routes out of NRT. Yes, ANA has Star Alliance to compensate for their smaller network, but I don't want to deal with several different carriers and their different policies and cultures. I want to fly my home airline (Japanese airline) as much as possible.
Domestically, the two carriers have comparable networks. But be aware that only JAL has a domestic business class that lets you sit in a comfortable seat for only 1,000 Yen more than coach. I always fly JAL's class J on my domestic flights, and it is a great deal. ANA has only coach and first class. And the coach seating in domestic 777s is awful -- 10 across and knee-crushing pitch. That said, if you often fly first class on various domestic routes, ANA may be a better bet, as the carrier has first class on many more routes than JAL (which only offers first on flights from Haneda to Osaka, Fukuoka, and Sapporo). But note that ANA 777 first class, unlike JAL first class, has -- gasp -- middle seats!
From a mileage program standpoint, I believe that only JAL has the "JGC Premier" level equivalent, which gives you almost all the same benefits as Diamond but for only 80,000 elite-qualifying miles instead of the 100,000 required for Diamond. (Note that JGC Premier is only available to JGC members.) And note that JGC Premier gets you oneworld Emerald status. Emerald status is the top tier of the three oneworld tiers, and oneworld is the only airline alliance with three tiers. (The highest level on Star Alliance is only equivalent to mid-tier status, not top tier, on most partner airlines.)
In all my flights on JAL I have never had a negative experience. On ANA, however, I did have a highly negative experience with an extremely snooty ticket agent at Itami airport when I was a college student trying to get a refund for "kaisuuken" multiple tickets that were supposedly fully refundable. The agent insisted (very snottily) that because I had made and canceled a reservation using one of the kaisuuken, that I had to pay a cancellation fee. There was no mention of this in any of the published rules (yes, I can read Japanese) but she wouldn't budge. As a poor college student who had gone to the trouble to confirm the refundability in advance and for whom ANY cancellation penalty was painful, I was really steamed. She clearly viewed me as dumb gaijin student riff-raff. Oh, well, it's ANA's loss. I now take several international J class trips every year, and they are all on JAL.
" BTW the remainder of the service was immaculate.
