Sep 21, 2014, 6:00 pm
Last edit by: armagebedar
When making a request, please specify the following for each segment for us to give you a more accurate calculation:
Also note that you can search for your itinerary on ITA Matrix to get an estimate of taxes and fees.
- Origin
- Destination
- Date of departure
- Carrier
- Travel class
Also note that you can search for your itinerary on ITA Matrix to get an estimate of taxes and fees.
Consolidated "fuel surcharge on redemptions" thread
Aug 13, 2012, 7:36 pm
#16
Moderator, All Nippon Airways and Japan
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: TYO
Programs: NH SFC (*G), JL JGP (OWE), AS MVP, WOH E, IHG SE
Posts: 3,908
Although I feel your pain, ANA is up front about charging taxes and other surcharges as levied on the equivalent paid ticket. I would obviously rather they follow the trend set by UA and not pass these fees on, but the global standard is unfortunately on NH's side and not UA's.
As for your example with US, beofotch, a dummy search on ITA does not reveal YQ or any other fee approaching USD400. However, in the fare rules is the following note:
Translated, this means that US does not levy this USD403 fee on its own award tickets, but does on its paid tickets. Also, any partner that passes on fees on award tickets will also charge this USD403 fee. It's a bit underhanded to put it in the fare rules like this, but it is not a glitch. (Edit: Apparently NH redemption system charges this fee in error, as it is technically part of the fare.)
If you mean UA doesn't charge YQ when redeeming miles with their own FFP (Mileage Plus), then yes -- but UA does indeed charge YQ on paid flights, which NH passes on when redeeming miles with AMC.
As for your example with US, beofotch, a dummy search on ITA does not reveal YQ or any other fee approaching USD400. However, in the fare rules is the following note:
Code:
ORIGINATING THE UNITED STATES OUTBOUND -
A SURCHARGE OF USD 403.00 FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED
TO THE APPLICABLE FARE FOR TRAVEL FOR TRANSATLANTIC
SECTORS.
NOTE -
THIS SURCHARGE IS GOVERNED BY GENERAL RULE 10 AND
IS ASSESSED FOR ANY FARE-PAYING PASSENGER EACH
TIME TRAVEL INVOLVES AN ENPLANEMENT ON A US
TRANSATLANTIC FLIGHT TO/FROM/VIA U.S.A./CANADA.
-EXCEPTION- THIS SURCHARGE DOES NOT APPLY TO
PASSENGERS TRAVELING ON ANY US FREE TICKET.
1. THE SURCHARGE SHALL BE CONVERTED TO THE
APPLICABLE CURRENCY FOR THE COUNTRY OF
COMMENCEMENT OF TRANSPORTATION IN ACCORDANCE
WITH THE APPROPRIATE IATA RATE OF EXCHANGE.
2. THE SURCHARGE APPLIES IN ADDITION TO ALL OTHER
CHARGES AND IS NOT SUBJECT TO ANY DISCOUNT.
ORIGINATING THE UNITED STATES INBOUND -
A SURCHARGE OF USD 403.00 FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED
TO THE APPLICABLE FARE FOR TRAVEL FOR TRANSATLANTIC
SECTORS.
NOTE -
THIS SURCHARGE IS GOVERNED BY GENERAL RULE 10 AND
IS ASSESSED FOR ANY FARE-PAYING PASSENGER EACH
TIME TRAVEL INVOLVES AN ENPLANEMENT ON A US
TRANSATLANTIC FLIGHT TO/FROM/VIA U.S.A./CANADA.
-EXCEPTION- THIS SURCHARGE DOES NOT APPLY TO
PASSENGERS TRAVELING ON ANY US FREE TICKET.
1. THE SURCHARGE SHALL BE CONVERTED TO THE
APPLICABLE CURRENCY FOR THE COUNTRY OF
COMMENCEMENT OF TRANSPORTATION IN ACCORDANCE
WITH THE APPROPRIATE IATA RATE OF EXCHANGE.
2. THE SURCHARGE APPLIES IN ADDITION TO ALL OTHER
CHARGES AND IS NOT SUBJECT TO ANY DISCOUNT.
If you mean UA doesn't charge YQ when redeeming miles with their own FFP (Mileage Plus), then yes -- but UA does indeed charge YQ on paid flights, which NH passes on when redeeming miles with AMC.
Last edited by armagebedar; Aug 15, 2012 at 6:36 am Reason: Edited to add updated info
Aug 13, 2012, 8:54 pm
#17
Ambassador: Japan Airlines
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: LAX
Programs: JAL Mileage Bank, JMB Diamond, oneworld Emerald, Bonvoy Platinum
Posts: 16,379
Aug 14, 2012, 7:09 am
#18
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: CLT
Programs: AA ExPlat, Hyatt Globalist, Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium
Posts: 1,551
Aug 14, 2012, 9:26 am
#19
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: CLT
Programs: AA ExPlat, Hyatt Globalist, Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium
Posts: 1,551
Another data point that something glitchy is going on:
Search originating in the USA:
PHL-FRA
FRA-PHL
On any combination of LH or US you get taxes and fees of $980
However, search originating in Europe:
FRA-PHL
PHL-FRA
On any combination of LH or US you get taxes and fees of $440. This to me seems more reasonable. Why are they charging more originating in the US than in Europe? This is sort of like Delta's infamous "International Origination Surcharge".
Search originating in the USA:
PHL-FRA
FRA-PHL
On any combination of LH or US you get taxes and fees of $980
However, search originating in Europe:
FRA-PHL
PHL-FRA
On any combination of LH or US you get taxes and fees of $440. This to me seems more reasonable. Why are they charging more originating in the US than in Europe? This is sort of like Delta's infamous "International Origination Surcharge".
Aug 14, 2012, 6:41 pm
#20
Moderator, All Nippon Airways and Japan
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: TYO
Programs: NH SFC (*G), JL JGP (OWE), AS MVP, WOH E, IHG SE
Posts: 3,908
Another data point that something glitchy is going on:
Search originating in the USA:
PHL-FRA
FRA-PHL
On any combination of LH or US you get taxes and fees of $980
However, search originating in Europe:
FRA-PHL
PHL-FRA
On any combination of LH or US you get taxes and fees of $440. This to me seems more reasonable. Why are they charging more originating in the US than in Europe? This is sort of like Delta's infamous "International Origination Surcharge".
Search originating in the USA:
PHL-FRA
FRA-PHL
On any combination of LH or US you get taxes and fees of $980
However, search originating in Europe:
FRA-PHL
PHL-FRA
On any combination of LH or US you get taxes and fees of $440. This to me seems more reasonable. Why are they charging more originating in the US than in Europe? This is sort of like Delta's infamous "International Origination Surcharge".
Edit: apparently, someone booking an itinerary very much like beofotch's contacted NH for an explanation, and was told that the fees quoted above were in error. I assume that NH's system was interpreting the fare rules as I did above, when in fact they should not be adding the additional USD403 fee to that itinerary, nor to any other US reservation. I had assumed the opposite based upon my experience booking with NH, but I'm glad that they are taking this particular stance on the matter. Good news from NH, but I hope they fix their system to account for this going forward.
Last edited by armagebedar; Aug 15, 2012 at 6:35 am Reason: Edited post to reflect updated information
Aug 15, 2012, 7:12 am
#21
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: CLT
Programs: AA ExPlat, Hyatt Globalist, Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium
Posts: 1,551
Edit: apparently, someone booking an itinerary very much like beofotch's contacted NH for an explanation, and was told that the fees quoted above were in error. I assume that NH's system was interpreting the fare rules as I did above, when in fact they should not be adding the additional USD403 fee to that itinerary, nor to any other US reservation. I had assumed the opposite based upon my experience booking with NH, but I'm glad that they are taking this particular stance on the matter. Good news from NH, but I hope they fix their system to account for this going forward.
Aug 15, 2012, 12:56 pm
#22
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 6,385
Although I feel your pain, ANA is up front about charging taxes and other surcharges as levied on the equivalent paid ticket. I would obviously rather they follow the trend set by UA and not pass these fees on, but the global standard is unfortunately on NH's side and not UA's.
As for your example with US, beofotch, a dummy search on ITA does not reveal YQ or any other fee approaching USD400. However, in the fare rules is the following note:
Translated, this means that US does not levy this USD403 fee on its own award tickets, but does on its paid tickets. Also, any partner that passes on fees on award tickets will also charge this USD403 fee. It's a bit underhanded to put it in the fare rules like this, but it is not a glitch. (Edit: Apparently NH redemption system charges this fee in error, as it is technically part of the fare.)
If you mean UA doesn't charge YQ when redeeming miles with their own FFP (Mileage Plus), then yes -- but UA does indeed charge YQ on paid flights, which NH passes on when redeeming miles with AMC.
As for your example with US, beofotch, a dummy search on ITA does not reveal YQ or any other fee approaching USD400. However, in the fare rules is the following note:
Code:
ORIGINATING THE UNITED STATES OUTBOUND -
A SURCHARGE OF USD 403.00 FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED
TO THE APPLICABLE FARE FOR TRAVEL FOR TRANSATLANTIC
SECTORS.
NOTE -
THIS SURCHARGE IS GOVERNED BY GENERAL RULE 10 AND
IS ASSESSED FOR ANY FARE-PAYING PASSENGER EACH
TIME TRAVEL INVOLVES AN ENPLANEMENT ON A US
TRANSATLANTIC FLIGHT TO/FROM/VIA U.S.A./CANADA.
-EXCEPTION- THIS SURCHARGE DOES NOT APPLY TO
PASSENGERS TRAVELING ON ANY US FREE TICKET.
1. THE SURCHARGE SHALL BE CONVERTED TO THE
APPLICABLE CURRENCY FOR THE COUNTRY OF
COMMENCEMENT OF TRANSPORTATION IN ACCORDANCE
WITH THE APPROPRIATE IATA RATE OF EXCHANGE.
2. THE SURCHARGE APPLIES IN ADDITION TO ALL OTHER
CHARGES AND IS NOT SUBJECT TO ANY DISCOUNT.
ORIGINATING THE UNITED STATES INBOUND -
A SURCHARGE OF USD 403.00 FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED
TO THE APPLICABLE FARE FOR TRAVEL FOR TRANSATLANTIC
SECTORS.
NOTE -
THIS SURCHARGE IS GOVERNED BY GENERAL RULE 10 AND
IS ASSESSED FOR ANY FARE-PAYING PASSENGER EACH
TIME TRAVEL INVOLVES AN ENPLANEMENT ON A US
TRANSATLANTIC FLIGHT TO/FROM/VIA U.S.A./CANADA.
-EXCEPTION- THIS SURCHARGE DOES NOT APPLY TO
PASSENGERS TRAVELING ON ANY US FREE TICKET.
1. THE SURCHARGE SHALL BE CONVERTED TO THE
APPLICABLE CURRENCY FOR THE COUNTRY OF
COMMENCEMENT OF TRANSPORTATION IN ACCORDANCE
WITH THE APPROPRIATE IATA RATE OF EXCHANGE.
2. THE SURCHARGE APPLIES IN ADDITION TO ALL OTHER
CHARGES AND IS NOT SUBJECT TO ANY DISCOUNT.
If you mean UA doesn't charge YQ when redeeming miles with their own FFP (Mileage Plus), then yes -- but UA does indeed charge YQ on paid flights, which NH passes on when redeeming miles with AMC.
Fare 1: Carrier EY ARTUS NYC to AUH (rules)
Passenger type ADT, round trip fare, booking code A
Covers JFK-AUH (First)
CA$10,363.24
Fare 2: Carrier EY FRTUS AUH to NYC (rules)
Passenger type ADT, round trip fare, booking code F
Covers AUH-JFK (First)
CA$12,073.99
US September 11th Security Fee (AY) $2.50
US Passenger Facility Charge (XF) $4.50
US International Departure Tax (US) $16.70
US International Arrival Tax (US) $16.70
United Arab Emirates Security and Safety Fee (TP) $1.40
United Arab Emirates Passenger Service Charge (AE) $20.40
US Customs Fee (YC) $5.50
US Immigration Fee (XY) $7.00
USDA APHIS Fee (XA) $5.00
Subtotal per passenger CA$22,516.83
Number of passengers x1
Total airfare & taxes CA$22,516.83
Can someone with enough NH miles call the desk and check?
Aug 25, 2012, 3:25 pm
#23
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: SFO
Posts: 311
For whatever its worth, recently did a redemption for 2 C-class awards (1-way) on NRT-SEA and it was around $750 for both, so over $350 in fees/surcharges per ticket. Ouch.
Redeemed via Air Canada Aeroplan. Wish I had seen that before xfering the miles from Amex!
Redeemed via Air Canada Aeroplan. Wish I had seen that before xfering the miles from Amex!
Aug 26, 2012, 12:41 pm
#24
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,187
Stefan
Aug 26, 2012, 3:42 pm
#25
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: SFO
Programs: AA EXP,AS MVPG,MR Platinum,HH Gold
Posts: 1,343
The only thing you could have done is transferred Amex:Aeroplan, then use points.com to transfer from Aeroplan:USAirways at a rate of 1:0.84 -- this actually makes an awful lot of sense for Asia awards because they don't charge YQ and US Air only wants 90K miles round trip from North America to Asia in Business, whereas Aeroplan wants 120K. So you can transfer 108K Amex to Aeroplan, then 108K Aeroplan to 90K US, and book without YQ. Save $350 + 12K miles.
Aug 28, 2012, 1:32 pm
#26
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: CLT
Programs: AA ExPlat, Hyatt Globalist, Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium
Posts: 1,551
I just checked:
CLT - PHL - MAD (all US metal)
BRU - JFK - CLT (SN and US metal)
ANA website booking engine reports $967.20 in fees, with $428 in airline fuel surcharge and 447 of "others", even outside of embarkation tax/customs fees/security fees.
When I look on ITA Matrix - BRU - JFK on SN should have EUR134 in YQ and the US legs have no YQ.
How the hell does ANA come up with the $875 in YQ + Others for something that should be about $180 (EUR134).
Even when I call they acknowledge the US airways problem, but the taxes fees still come to $550, $424 of which is YQ on BRU - JFK which should be EUR134.
CLT - PHL - MAD (all US metal)
BRU - JFK - CLT (SN and US metal)
ANA website booking engine reports $967.20 in fees, with $428 in airline fuel surcharge and 447 of "others", even outside of embarkation tax/customs fees/security fees.
When I look on ITA Matrix - BRU - JFK on SN should have EUR134 in YQ and the US legs have no YQ.
How the hell does ANA come up with the $875 in YQ + Others for something that should be about $180 (EUR134).
Even when I call they acknowledge the US airways problem, but the taxes fees still come to $550, $424 of which is YQ on BRU - JFK which should be EUR134.
Last edited by beofotch; Aug 28, 2012 at 4:00 pm
Aug 29, 2012, 2:28 pm
#27
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: CLT
Programs: AA ExPlat, Hyatt Globalist, Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium
Posts: 1,551
I called and ANA came back with a YQ of $355 each way for NYC - AUH - NYC on EY. Where they got it from, I don't know.
Ok, then according to ITA EY does not have YQ.
Fare 1: Carrier EY ARTUS NYC to AUH (rules)
Passenger type ADT, round trip fare, booking code A
Covers JFK-AUH (First)
CA$10,363.24
Fare 2: Carrier EY FRTUS AUH to NYC (rules)
Passenger type ADT, round trip fare, booking code F
Covers AUH-JFK (First)
CA$12,073.99
US September 11th Security Fee (AY) $2.50
US Passenger Facility Charge (XF) $4.50
US International Departure Tax (US) $16.70
US International Arrival Tax (US) $16.70
United Arab Emirates Security and Safety Fee (TP) $1.40
United Arab Emirates Passenger Service Charge (AE) $20.40
US Customs Fee (YC) $5.50
US Immigration Fee (XY) $7.00
USDA APHIS Fee (XA) $5.00
Subtotal per passenger CA$22,516.83
Number of passengers x1
Total airfare & taxes CA$22,516.83
Can someone with enough NH miles call the desk and check?
Fare 1: Carrier EY ARTUS NYC to AUH (rules)
Passenger type ADT, round trip fare, booking code A
Covers JFK-AUH (First)
CA$10,363.24
Fare 2: Carrier EY FRTUS AUH to NYC (rules)
Passenger type ADT, round trip fare, booking code F
Covers AUH-JFK (First)
CA$12,073.99
US September 11th Security Fee (AY) $2.50
US Passenger Facility Charge (XF) $4.50
US International Departure Tax (US) $16.70
US International Arrival Tax (US) $16.70
United Arab Emirates Security and Safety Fee (TP) $1.40
United Arab Emirates Passenger Service Charge (AE) $20.40
US Customs Fee (YC) $5.50
US Immigration Fee (XY) $7.00
USDA APHIS Fee (XA) $5.00
Subtotal per passenger CA$22,516.83
Number of passengers x1
Total airfare & taxes CA$22,516.83
Can someone with enough NH miles call the desk and check?
Aug 29, 2012, 3:35 pm
#28
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: SFO
Programs: AA EXP,AS MVPG,MR Platinum,HH Gold
Posts: 1,343
There is a fuel surcharge, but remember that not all fuel surcharges are itemized as taxes (YQ or YR in the XT section). A number of airlines collect fuel surcharges as "embedded Q" surcharges in the fare construction's surcharges section -- EY and KE among them. Looking up the fare rules you'll find the following under Surcharges:ORIGINATING THE UNITED STATES -
FOR TICKETING ON/AFTER 04JUN 12
A FUEL SURCHARGE OF USD 355.00 FARE COMPONENT WILL
BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE PER ADULT/CHILD/
INFANT.
And ITA displays this as part of the fare construction:
NYC EY AUH Q355.00 7221.50RRTUS EY NYC Q355.00 7221.50RRTUS NUC 15153.00 END ROE 1.00 XT 5.50YC 7.00XY 5.00XA 33.40US 2.50AY 20.40AE 1.40TP 4.50XF JFK4.50
So with respect to fuel surcharges on EY, if it's ANA's policy to collect airline fuel surcharges they're doing it right. You can argue fairness of the policy all day, but they're sticking by it!
Last edited by arcticbull; Aug 30, 2012 at 11:30 pm
Aug 29, 2012, 3:43 pm
#29
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: SFO
Programs: AA EXP,AS MVPG,MR Platinum,HH Gold
Posts: 1,343
I just checked:
CLT - PHL - MAD (all US metal)
BRU - JFK - CLT (SN and US metal)
ANA website booking engine reports $967.20 in fees, with $428 in airline fuel surcharge and 447 of "others", even outside of embarkation tax/customs fees/security fees.
When I look on ITA Matrix - BRU - JFK on SN should have EUR134 in YQ and the US legs have no YQ.
How the hell does ANA come up with the $875 in YQ + Others for something that should be about $180 (EUR134).
Even when I call they acknowledge the US airways problem, but the taxes fees still come to $550, $424 of which is YQ on BRU - JFK which should be EUR134.
CLT - PHL - MAD (all US metal)
BRU - JFK - CLT (SN and US metal)
ANA website booking engine reports $967.20 in fees, with $428 in airline fuel surcharge and 447 of "others", even outside of embarkation tax/customs fees/security fees.
When I look on ITA Matrix - BRU - JFK on SN should have EUR134 in YQ and the US legs have no YQ.
How the hell does ANA come up with the $875 in YQ + Others for something that should be about $180 (EUR134).
Even when I call they acknowledge the US airways problem, but the taxes fees still come to $550, $424 of which is YQ on BRU - JFK which should be EUR134.
As for the $424 on Brussels, that's what it used to be. I remember that for sure. It appears to have been drastically cut somewhat recently.
Last edited by arcticbull; Aug 29, 2012 at 3:50 pm
Aug 30, 2012, 7:23 pm
#30
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: CLT
Programs: AA ExPlat, Hyatt Globalist, Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium
Posts: 1,551
Finally made a successful booking that was not a rip-off:
2x Business Class
CLT-PHL-MAN-BRU // ZRH - MUC // MUC - MAN - PHL - CLT
The transatlantic legs are on US Airways (no YQ), and MAN-BRU is on SN; ZRH - MUC is on LH; and MUC - MAN is on SQ (in Y)
68,000 ANA miles and ~$330 per ticket in taxes and fees.
2x Business Class
CLT-PHL-MAN-BRU // ZRH - MUC // MUC - MAN - PHL - CLT
The transatlantic legs are on US Airways (no YQ), and MAN-BRU is on SN; ZRH - MUC is on LH; and MUC - MAN is on SQ (in Y)
68,000 ANA miles and ~$330 per ticket in taxes and fees.
