djsflynn

Is Alitalia preparing to leave the SkyTeam alliance..? "SkyTeam (is a) long and good partnership, (it) has had significant benefits" explains newly-minted CEO Cramer Ball, but "Alitalia is changing and wants to be master of its own destiny..."

More at http://www.ausbt.com.au/alitalia-to-...yteam-alliance

irishguy28

Interesting, indeed.

I wonder if Alitalia really is champing at the bit to launch more flights which the others don't want - perhaps for reasons of controlling capacity - if there is money to be made, though, you would think they would be all for it.

Perhaps this is more the hand of Etihad, who would like to use Alitalia to launch additional US services for their own ends. However, one suspects that Alitalia derives a lot of connecting traffice from Delta, which could be jeopardised if a Skyteam "Alixit" were to happen.

Still...I am sure that Alitalia/Etihad would quickly be able to arrange codeshare deals with Jet Blue, Alaska Airlines and Virgin America to enhance coverage in the US should Delta be lost to them...

Remember that Alitalia chose not to renew its codesharing deal with AFKL and, as such, is withdrawing (to a certain extent) from its Skyteam partners already.

It could also just be posturing to put pressure on the Italian government to reduce their support/enthusiasm for Emirates' MXP-JFK link; or to head off any other fifth freedom flights; or to allow Etihad metal into the Italy-US market.

TPJ

If both parties agree there is nothing that would stop AZ to leave Scarry Team but still keep code-share relationship with DL. AA code-shares with both QR and EY, JL with both BA and AF and alliance membership has nothing to do with it.

ColinBray

Ah well, the SkyTeam alliance has been little use between Moscow and Milan. Does it work better for other airlines/airports?

Apart from code-sharing with Aeroflot, the two have acted like an arguing married couple who won't communicate with each other... at Moscow you can only check-in online if booked through Aeroflot, while at Milan MXP the MilleMiglia Card not accepted at Fast Track if flying Aeroflot. If an Aeroflot flight's cancelled, they'll eventually book you on Alitalia (if you beg) but it's a hopeless cause vice versa.

Plus, the Sky Priority boarding is pointless because both queues are boarded simultaneously and queue-pushing all-but encouraged at both Moscow and Milan.

Is that the same with other SkyTeam members and at airports? If so, I'm not sure what the benefit of membership is apart from accruing (a fairly measly amount of) miles on partner airlines.

btonkid12345

Lounge access is one. If you're Elite Plus and in economy, you can use Alitalia lounges. If they leave SkyTeam, this benefit would be removed.

irishguy28

Indeed, but this is Delta we are talking about. They would not agree to such a thing.

FlyingHoustonian

so for grins...Star or Oneworld if they left sky? I cannot see them stay independent tool long. Maybe a fourth alliance starts with Etihad and its other minions.

s0ssos

Is there a lot of traffic from Delta? Delta seems to route over the Atlantic on Virgin more, and also seems much closer to AF/KLM than Alitalia.

irishguy28

In the context of Europe-bound passengers, Virgin is only an option for UK-bound traffic; Virgin has no shorthaul network and therefore cannot assist in forwarding Delta passengers onwards to other European destinations.



That is why Delta retains their other immunised joint venture with AF/KL/AZ - to fill in the spots in Europe that Delta cannot reach, by putting DL passengers onto the AF network from CDG, the KL network from AMS, or AZ's network from FCO/MXP/LIN

I have no idea of the numbers, but there must be some Delta passengers bound for the Italian regions at least that wind up on Alitalia's network. And given Alitalia's paucity of coverage in North America, they clearly end up passing their pax on to DL flights in the US, too.

s0ssos

I don't know about the finances (couldn't find anything with a quick google search), but for a random date from LAX to VCE Delta routed most of their results through CDG (and thus AF), instead of FCO (AZ). Then I switched to NAP, a little bit harder than VCE (cause apparently one can fly thru ATL to VCE) and AF still seemed to get more options than AZ. Finally with CTA AZ has the most results.
I have a suspicion that all is not equal in the world of Skyteam, and Delta has a preference of who to route on, and it isn't AZ.

irishguy28

It's a metal-neutral alliance. All participants share all revenues. It might look like DL is "favouring" AF and KL, but this is merely a representation of the fact that Alitalia is by far the junior partner; they were late to the JV party, and now find that they are forever doomed to be the junior partner.



With so few Alitalia seats available (only about 3/4 of what they had 10 years ago - meaning that they are the biggest "loser" in terms of the current Top 15, of whom all (except, surprisingly, BA) are today* operating more seats than they did 10 years previously), Alitalia represents less than 7% of the seat capacity of the Skyteam JV. As such, it is only when you search for destinations served only by Alitalia that you are most likely to find Alitalia prominently returned in searches on DL.com - the greater frequency of DL, AF or KL flights to CDG, AMS, or wherever else can make a logical connection, mean that for most searches, travelling on the "busier" airlines is more likely than travelling on the least frequent airline, AZ.

Bear in mind that LAX is only operated seasonally by Alitalia - it could very well be that on your random date there simply is no AZ service. Their US network is tiny in comparison to many European airlines.

On the above figures, AZ would easily have been in the Top 10 10 years ago - now they are being overtaken by all comers. I can't imagine that the likes of Norwegian, Iberia et al are too far behind!

*today meaning 2015, the latest full year for which figures are available

ColinBray

'Lounge access is one. If you're Elite Plus and in economy, you can use Alitalia lounges' - btonkid12345

Well, not exactly. If you book with your Alitalia Elite Plus number but fly Aeroflot, they won't let you in the 'Casa Alitalia' lounges, you have to use the standard lounge.

btonkid12345

Aeroflot? The airline that doesn't have 1 of it's own lounges that SkyTeam Elite Pluses can get into, at their worldwide hub in SVO?

Sarcasm aside - what is your information based on? It is neither published on the AZ website nor on the SkyTeam website. However, I had two people in my family flying last week on SU and they got into the Casa Alitalia lounges with no issue...

Sounds like you are taking an anecdote with perhaps an uninformed employee and generalizing.

ColinBray

It's from personal experience two weeks ago when I was turned away from Casa Alitalia at MXP and told 'you can only come in if you are flying on an Alitalia plane. If you fly Aeroflot you have to use the other lounge'.

And you're right about the SVO lounges....yuk!

btonkid12345

I'm sorry you had to go through this. You should have reported this employee/escalated it, as they cannot make up rules that are not published or sanctioned by their alliance. I know the lounge agents can make exceptions as my father had Club 2000 but didn't have his card on him and they let him + guest (my mom) in anyways (we were flying AZ on this occasion, though).