Compensation claim under 261/2004 denied by Alitalia 'for technical reasons'.
Nov 29, 2012, 9:59 am
#1
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Compensation claim under 261/2004 denied by Alitalia 'for technical reasons'.
Compensation claim under 261/2004 denied by Alitalia 'for technical reasons'.
flight FCO-GIG. (departure at 23.30)
I arrive well in time. At the desk Alitalia tells that the flight will be delayed with two hours.
When midnight approaches, the Alitalia staff anounces that the flight will leave at 08.30 (nine hours delay).
Then the circus starts and we end up in a hotel room in Ostia at 00.30.
Wake-up call at 05.30, breakfast, flight leaves at 08.30 and we arrive in Rio, 19.00 local time.
Today I filed a EU 261/2004 complaint form with the appropriate documentation.
Two hours later, Alitalia called me to say that the claim was denied because the problem was a technical failure.
This answer leaves me with a couple of questions.
Isn't the burden of evidence on Alitalia's side?
All I get is a statement that the delay was because of 'technical reasons'.
Shouldn't there be proof of the technical reason, time it took to fix, exceptional nature of this problem?
Shouldn't they state that the problem was not inherent to the normal excercise of the activity of the air carrier and beyond it's actual control (and that the problem caused at least five hours delay.)
http://curia.europa.eu/en/actu/commu...cp080100en.pdf
Most of the statement consist out of weasel-words that are of a general nature, and don't concern my flight. In fact, the statement does not say that the the 'technical reasons' that delayed my flight were 'unexpected technical problems'. Only the first two lines are about my flight. The rest is generic.
In addition, I was not really provided with a meal (sleazy slice of pizza, an insult to Italy), means of communication or informed about my rights.
They did drive us to the hotel, where we got a room and breakfast. And a timely bus transfer to the airport.
So I am asking. What should my next step be?
I hope to get the 600€ compensation. This does not even cover the loss of time.
flight FCO-GIG. (departure at 23.30)
I arrive well in time. At the desk Alitalia tells that the flight will be delayed with two hours.
When midnight approaches, the Alitalia staff anounces that the flight will leave at 08.30 (nine hours delay).
Then the circus starts and we end up in a hotel room in Ostia at 00.30.
Wake-up call at 05.30, breakfast, flight leaves at 08.30 and we arrive in Rio, 19.00 local time.
Today I filed a EU 261/2004 complaint form with the appropriate documentation.
Two hours later, Alitalia called me to say that the claim was denied because the problem was a technical failure.
Dear [Name - redacted]
In reply to your communication of 29/11/2012 and pursuant to the telephone conversation that you had with our Customer Care Office, we wish to renew our sincere regrets for the inconvenience you experienced while traveling with Alitalia on flight AZ 672 of 16/11/2012.
After we made the standard checks, it came out that the flight AZ 672 on 16/11/2012 was delayed 539 minutes for technical reasons.
Alitalia is always very careful and accurate in carrying out the programmed maintenance of its aircraft. anyhow unexpected technical problems may arise, and in this case a maximal attention is focused on the specific problem in order to engage all necessary steps to allow the regular operation of the plane.
Nevertheless sometimes the flight delay cannot be avoided.
According to what has been settled by the applicable Regulation, if the flight delay has been caused by exceptional circumstances, as in this case, the Carrier is exempted from paying any monetary compensation.
Wishing that you will restore your confidence in Alitalia, we inform you that our Customer Care Office is at your disposal at the number [national customer support number], for any need or information,
Yours Truly,
Alitalia Customer Relations
In reply to your communication of 29/11/2012 and pursuant to the telephone conversation that you had with our Customer Care Office, we wish to renew our sincere regrets for the inconvenience you experienced while traveling with Alitalia on flight AZ 672 of 16/11/2012.
After we made the standard checks, it came out that the flight AZ 672 on 16/11/2012 was delayed 539 minutes for technical reasons.
Alitalia is always very careful and accurate in carrying out the programmed maintenance of its aircraft. anyhow unexpected technical problems may arise, and in this case a maximal attention is focused on the specific problem in order to engage all necessary steps to allow the regular operation of the plane.
Nevertheless sometimes the flight delay cannot be avoided.
According to what has been settled by the applicable Regulation, if the flight delay has been caused by exceptional circumstances, as in this case, the Carrier is exempted from paying any monetary compensation.
Wishing that you will restore your confidence in Alitalia, we inform you that our Customer Care Office is at your disposal at the number [national customer support number], for any need or information,
Yours Truly,
Alitalia Customer Relations
Isn't the burden of evidence on Alitalia's side?
All I get is a statement that the delay was because of 'technical reasons'.
Shouldn't there be proof of the technical reason, time it took to fix, exceptional nature of this problem?
Shouldn't they state that the problem was not inherent to the normal excercise of the activity of the air carrier and beyond it's actual control (and that the problem caused at least five hours delay.)
http://curia.europa.eu/en/actu/commu...cp080100en.pdf
Most of the statement consist out of weasel-words that are of a general nature, and don't concern my flight. In fact, the statement does not say that the the 'technical reasons' that delayed my flight were 'unexpected technical problems'. Only the first two lines are about my flight. The rest is generic.
In addition, I was not really provided with a meal (sleazy slice of pizza, an insult to Italy), means of communication or informed about my rights.
They did drive us to the hotel, where we got a room and breakfast. And a timely bus transfer to the airport.
So I am asking. What should my next step be?
I hope to get the 600€ compensation. This does not even cover the loss of time.
Nov 29, 2012, 5:32 pm
#3
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Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
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How ironic that Alitalia should invoke technical reasons when the case in which the European Court of Justice confirmed that "technical reasons" are NOT in themselve a valid reason to deny compensation under Reg 261/2004 was Wallentin-Herman vs..., yes you guessed it, Alitalia.
I would write/email back and draw the judgment to their attention.
I would write/email back and draw the judgment to their attention.
Nov 30, 2012, 3:13 am
#4
Join Date: Aug 2012
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How ironic that Alitalia should invoke technical reasons when the case in which the European Court of Justice confirmed that "technical reasons" are NOT in themselve a valid reason to deny compensation under Reg 261/2004 was Wallentin-Herman vs..., yes you guessed it, Alitalia.
I would write/email back and draw the judgment to their attention.
I would write/email back and draw the judgment to their attention.
i would add also that you can claim via ENAC, the Italian auth. who regulate EU261/2004 disputes.
On my experience, when ENAC is involved, 90% of times AZ gives to passenger his/her EU361/2004 compensation!
Don't forget that European airlines, (obliged to observe the EU261/2004), usually give to the customer firstly a denied compensation reply (because compensations are usually very high on flights >1500 miles); that's why they try to "skim" the most part of claims in this way!
Dec 1, 2012, 8:56 am
#5
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I would write/email back and draw the judgment to their attention.
This time no answer within two hours.
Jan 30, 2013, 1:40 am
#7
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Was this the form you used?
They are trying to not pay me 1200 Euros for a 12 hr "technical delay"
http://195.103.234.163/applicazioni/...modulo_261.asp
They are trying to not pay me 1200 Euros for a 12 hr "technical delay"
http://195.103.234.163/applicazioni/...modulo_261.asp
Jan 31, 2013, 10:02 am
#8
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: BRU
Programs: FB Silver. Some hotel programs. More interested in cheap travel than points accrual.
Posts: 97
1.
Yes, this was the form that I used.
2.
I got an email back from the Italian regulator that I don't understand at all.
I have no clue which one of the three reasons they are invoking. Most likely the second one, where it is unclear to the regulator why Alitalia's answer (short mail stating no compensation due to 'technical problems') would be unsatisfactory.
I'll try to do the request again with a native Italian speaker (I had to google translate through the website.)
If not succesfull, I might make my debute in a small claims court.
Yes, this was the form that I used.
2.
I got an email back from the Italian regulator that I don't understand at all.
Sig. / Sig.ra BRU2m10
Le comunichiamo che il Suo modulo n. XXX è stato annullato per uno o più dei seguenti motivi:
•presentazione in difformità dalla procedura di reclamo prevista;
•non è stato possibile evincere dalla sezione 'Note' il contenuto della risposta 'insoddisfacente' ricevuta dal vettore;
•sono stati inviati più moduli per lo stesso disservizio;
Per ulteriori informazioni consultare il sito Enac nella sezione reclami.
Non rispondere a questa mail, l'indirizzo non è attivo per la ricezione.
Cordiali Saluti.
Enac
Ufficio Carta Diritti e Qualità dei servizi Aeroportuali
Le comunichiamo che il Suo modulo n. XXX è stato annullato per uno o più dei seguenti motivi:
•presentazione in difformità dalla procedura di reclamo prevista;
•non è stato possibile evincere dalla sezione 'Note' il contenuto della risposta 'insoddisfacente' ricevuta dal vettore;
•sono stati inviati più moduli per lo stesso disservizio;
Per ulteriori informazioni consultare il sito Enac nella sezione reclami.
Non rispondere a questa mail, l'indirizzo non è attivo per la ricezione.
Cordiali Saluti.
Enac
Ufficio Carta Diritti e Qualità dei servizi Aeroportuali
I'll try to do the request again with a native Italian speaker (I had to google translate through the website.)
If not succesfull, I might make my debute in a small claims court.
Jan 31, 2013, 10:31 am
#9
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: LHR
Programs: M&M,HH Gold,Accor Plat.,Priority Club Plat. Ambassador,Club Carlson Gold,Marriott Gold,GHA Plat.
Posts: 1,627
1.
Yes, this was the form that I used.
2.
I got an email back from the Italian regulator that I don't understand at all.
I have no clue which one of the three reasons they are invoking. Most likely the second one, where it is unclear to the regulator why Alitalia's answer (short mail stating no compensation due to 'technical problems') would be unsatisfactory.
I'll try to do the request again with a native Italian speaker (I had to google translate through the website.)
If not succesfull, I might make my debute in a small claims court.
Yes, this was the form that I used.
2.
I got an email back from the Italian regulator that I don't understand at all.
I have no clue which one of the three reasons they are invoking. Most likely the second one, where it is unclear to the regulator why Alitalia's answer (short mail stating no compensation due to 'technical problems') would be unsatisfactory.
I'll try to do the request again with a native Italian speaker (I had to google translate through the website.)
If not succesfull, I might make my debute in a small claims court.
ENAC - Ente Nazionale per l’Aviazione Civile
Viale del Castro Pretorio, 118
IT - 00185 ROME
or via fax (it's not an official way to communicate with!): +39 06 44596493
and wait for reply!
Feb 1, 2013, 5:54 am
#10
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: MUC/BGY
Posts: 79
Sig. / Sig.ra BRU2m10
Le comunichiamo che il Suo modulo n. XXX è stato annullato per uno o più dei seguenti motivi:
•presentazione in difformità dalla procedura di reclamo prevista;
•non è stato possibile evincere dalla sezione 'Note' il contenuto della risposta 'insoddisfacente' ricevuta dal vettore;
•sono stati inviati più moduli per lo stesso disservizio;
Per ulteriori informazioni consultare il sito Enac nella sezione reclami.
Non rispondere a questa mail, l'indirizzo non è attivo per la ricezione.
Cordiali Saluti.
Enac
Ufficio Carta Diritti e Qualità dei servizi Aeroportuali
Le comunichiamo che il Suo modulo n. XXX è stato annullato per uno o più dei seguenti motivi:
•presentazione in difformità dalla procedura di reclamo prevista;
•non è stato possibile evincere dalla sezione 'Note' il contenuto della risposta 'insoddisfacente' ricevuta dal vettore;
•sono stati inviati più moduli per lo stesso disservizio;
Per ulteriori informazioni consultare il sito Enac nella sezione reclami.
Non rispondere a questa mail, l'indirizzo non è attivo per la ricezione.
Cordiali Saluti.
Enac
Ufficio Carta Diritti e Qualità dei servizi Aeroportuali
Basically the three possible reasons for cancelling the claim are:
- Request presented in a different way compared to the standard procedure
- In "notes" field it was not possible to understand the unsatisfactory reply from the airline company
- More claims sent for the same disservice
If you need more help, just ask
Last edited by geordie986; Feb 1, 2013 at 6:28 am
Jul 10, 2013, 6:33 am
#12
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Aug 13, 2013, 1:32 pm
#13
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,031
Long story but basically yes.
AZ finally responded about 3-4 weeks claiming that EC 261/2004 holds the marketing carrier responsible and I should complain to Delta. The actual regulation explicitly mentions that the operating carrier bears responsibility and I have sent the relevant parts of the law to them so we will see what happens.
AZ finally responded about 3-4 weeks claiming that EC 261/2004 holds the marketing carrier responsible and I should complain to Delta. The actual regulation explicitly mentions that the operating carrier bears responsibility and I have sent the relevant parts of the law to them so we will see what happens.
Sep 25, 2013, 3:14 am
#14
Used to be 'rockferd'
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Long story but basically yes.
AZ finally responded about 3-4 weeks claiming that EC 261/2004 holds the marketing carrier responsible and I should complain to Delta. The actual regulation explicitly mentions that the operating carrier bears responsibility and I have sent the relevant parts of the law to them so we will see what happens.
AZ finally responded about 3-4 weeks claiming that EC 261/2004 holds the marketing carrier responsible and I should complain to Delta. The actual regulation explicitly mentions that the operating carrier bears responsibility and I have sent the relevant parts of the law to them so we will see what happens.
Hard to believe that DL is to be help responsible for AZ downgrading you. For at the time that DL booked you there is no way the flight was oversold unless DL did a long sell or rerouted you this way. I would be sure to fill the required forms and send to AZ and DL. If they do not reply send the form to national enforcement body. I have had great lucky with LH in the past. All forms and details can be found here
Sep 26, 2013, 8:26 am
#15
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