AlicorporateUK

I'm pleased to say that the matter in question has finally got resolved i.e. I received both reimbursement and compensation, which were originally requested at the end of November 2011
I recently had a very similar issue with KLM and received the funds roughly 90 hours further to my request [which is massively quick, methinks]. I do hold status, though, with AF-KL and I wonder if this has some kind of relevance when it comes to such [annoying] circumstances.

raistlin

It sure does.

Oakshadow

Thanks for the update and I'm glad AZ finally did what it should have months ago.

debp

I am having the same problem with Alitalia. My flight from Miami to Rome was cancelled 6 months before the date of travel, I was rebooked on the flight for the next day and I was never notified. I have emailed and called Alitalia numerous times and gotten nowhere. Today I sent a fax and a letter via priority mail. I'm hoping this time I will get some kind of response. I'm wondering if anyone has another contact number from the U.S. I've called 800-223-5730, that is the only number I have. Any other suggestions?

Also, I have asked to be compensated with frequent flyer points, that's how my ticket was booked. Does anyone know if is possible to be compensated with points?

Thank you for your help.

orbitmic

You don't actually tell us what you want from them, what you asked them, and/or what they have answered you, which doesn't help. AZ is entitled to cancelling a flight six months in advance. They will offer to rebook you on the nearest flight they have. You can accept this or ask to be moved to another day when there is a flight and seats left in your class of transportation, or you can decide that you are not happy with the dates on which you can fly and get a full refund (of the miles if this is how you booked plus taxes you paid). Because the flight was cancelled so long in advance, however, you are not entitled to any compensation.

debp

orbitmic, thank you for your reply. It's nice to know someone is listening.


My flight was cancelled and I was NEVER notified. I found out almost by accident. I was having trouble with online check-in the day before my flight so I called Alitalia. That is when I was told (for the first time) that the flight was cancelled (6 months earlier) and I was rebooked on the following day. The representative said I would be compensated and told me to contact customer relations by email. I sent emails and I called many times. I did speak to 2 very helpful representatives that both said they would send emails on my behalf. I have yet to receive a response to any email sent. One representative said she would look into it and call me back, that didn't happen. Now I can't get her on the phone. This has been ongoing for a month.


I wasn't aware of the compensation policy, I asked to be compensated. Today, in my letter I asked for 1/2 of the miles I used to book the trip. I think this is fair. I realize now compensation is usually in Euro, that is ok with me.


Do you think I have a better change of receiving a response to the fax/priority mail? What do you think is a reasonable amount of time to expect a response? I don't know what else to do. I hope someone from Alitalia contacts me, hopefully soon. Being ignored is the worst.

orbitmic

I think it is both not unusual and nonetheless unacceptable that they did not warn you. One key question here though is did you book your ticket directly from Alitalia (e.g. alitalia.com, phone, etc) or through a real a virtual travel agent? (e.g. expedia, orbitz, etc). The question is key because the onus of information is on the TA (which will have been informed by the airline) and not on the airline.

Again, re cancellation per se, no compensation is due, but re-no information this would be a very different story. Did you give some contact information to AZ when you booked (so that they could inform you)? If so, that you booked from them directly, and they did not tell you about the cancellation and change you should be able to get something for the incovenience I should imagine. I am certain it will be no issue to get MM miles rather than cash, quite the contrary, and I don't know what amount they will/would go for if they consider you eligible.

NickB

When the cancellation takes place does not matter. What matters is when the passenger is informed of the cancellation. If the passenger was never informed until the day before check-in (i.e. less than 7 days before departure) and the rerouting is the next day as in debp's case, then the passenger is entitled to the full Article 7 compensation under Reg 261/2004. If this was a long-haul flight, this means €600 (€250 if short-haul or €400 if medium-haul). If the departure the next day meant the passenger had additional overnight accommodation costs and AZ did not provide for this, then debp would also be entitled to reimbursement of that.

As to the TA vs booking direct issue, in any event under Art 5(4) of Reg 261/2004, the onus is on the operating carrier to establish that the passenger was informed. In so far as a TA is normally an agent for the airline rather than the passenger, it would not, imo, be enough for the airline to show that it informed the TA. If the airline informed the TA and the TA did not pass on the message, then the airline, it seems to me, must still pay compensation to the passenger (although it may have a recursive action against the TA to recover the sum from the TA).

debp

Thank you both for the information. I booked directly with Alitalia by phone and gave them my email address, home address and phone number.

Any advice on how best to contact Alitalia? I've emailed customer relations, emailed the back office, called every option on the 800-223-5730 number, sent a fax and a priority mail letter to NY (with backup documentation). It was only yesterday I sent the fax and priority mail letter, maybe that will get a response? Is there anything else I can do?

NickB

I would wait a couple of weeks to give them time to reply to the letter.
After that, if there is still no answer, you will have to consider upping the ante and consider sending a pre-litigation formal letter. But we are not there yet.

debp

Thanks for your advice Nick. Hopefully it will not come to that. Everyone seems to agree I am due compensation, well everyone I have actually spoken to (including Alitalia telephone customer service reps). Here's hoping this issue is resolved soon without a formal pre-litigation letter. I will do whatever it takes. At this point it's a matter of standing up for my rights as a customer.

NickB

Unfortunately, some of Alitalia's back office processes are pretty chaotic. Even if they recognise that they should do something, it does not follow that it will actually be done. One sometimes has to persevere beyond the point of despair to get things done. But let us hope that it will be a touch smoother here.

Shanagarry

Apologies if I'm hijacking, but I would like to ask a question that is quite closely linked to what has been discussed in the last few posts.

I'd like to delve into the technicalities of notification of cancellation - I assume that the airline has to make contact by means such as email, phone call or sms for it to be considered notification of cancellation, and simply updating the booking details online isn't sufficient? I've just noticed by chance when checking details of another flight that a flight I was booked on shortly has been cancelled and I've been rerouted. I've had no contact from the airline though, so am I correct to assume that this would constitute no notification from the airline and I would be eligible for compensation subject to the other criteria being met (within 2 weeks, difference in arrival/departure times)?

Also, the new flight will have me arriving within c. 2 hours of the scheduled arrival time of the cancelled flight. However, I will be starting my journey 10 hours earlier as I am being rerouted through LHR. Is it correct that my compensation will be halved as I will arrive within 4 hours of schedule (this is a >3500km flight) despite having to commence my journey so much earlier?

NickB

On notification, that is correct.

On amount due, on a literal reading of the Reg you are correct. However, in the light of the way the ECJ normally approaches the regulation, it is more highly debatable whether the airline can actually reduce the compensation by 50%. Art 7(2) has been written primarily with the denied boarding situation in mind, not the situation you refer to in your post. It would be hard to find a rationale to allow the airline to reduce compensation by 50% in your situation. I would expect the ECJ to interpret Art 7(2) in light with the spirit of the regulation and therefore 100% compensation rather than 50%. That said, just because I say so does not mean that the airline will share my view .

orbitmic

I think that is a really interesting question, and if I were to volunteer a guess one of the areas in which rulings are bound to follow (unless some have already come I haven't really followed and can't find them after a cursory glance). I'm actually not that convinced that the TA is agent for the airline rather than the passenger. After all, with current pricing models, for the past five years, in most countries, airlines have stopped paying commissions to TAs directly. The TA is chosen by the passenger, paid by the passenger, and for all practical purposes, the airline is likely to have no direct information about the passenger's contact details unless the passenger spontaneously goes on manage my booking and includes them (in my experience, most TAs provide their own phone number and email contact to airlines). In commercial practice, there is also no direct contact between airlines and passengers on TA-made bookings unless both airline and agent agree to transfer file ownership (temporarily or permanently). However, the regulation itself does not talk of TAs so it seems that the only case recognised by the reg is of the airline notifying the passenger. This could lead to multiple more or less awkward interpretations ranging from good to passenger and bad for airline (i.e. compensation is due because pax was not notified, airline is obliged to ensure pax notification even if they have explicitly no contact details for a passenger), to bad for the passenger and good for the airline and TA (i.e. by notifying the TA which is the contact detail provided on the booking, airline did its reasonable best to inform passenger. No compensation is therefore due. Moreover, the TA is not covered by the reg so while pax could sue TA for not informing it of schedule change, this is based on the contract between TA and pax and not covered by the regulation per se) or even to bad for TA and good for pax and airline (at least in countries where case law matters - courts use reg guidelines to estimate the prejudice suffered by pax as a consequence of the negligence of the TA). I'm pretty sure that if I were caught in a case like that and decided to go to small courts I'd probably try to sue both airline and TA (having in any case, a contract with both). I can imagine plenty of online TAs updating their T&C to suggest it is the passenger's responsibility to regularly check their itineraries on the website, which would be useless for airlines but "might" work for TAs as they are not explicitly covered in the regulation.

This being said, again, on the cases above with tickets booked directly from airlines (unless they have created separate companies to handle their ticket sales but I doubt it) the situation is crystal clear - not informing the passenger especially if his/her contact details are known is just unacceptable and entitles you to the compensation planned.

One quick question/issue/speculation about when there is no notification but pax viewed itinerary change anyway. I would be interested to know what the courts' reaction would be if the airline can prove that even though it did not notify the passenger directly, the file was access on MMB on xx/yy/2012 from computer with IP zzz so pax was aware of the new timings. I would personally imagine it would not take away the obligation to inform the pax directly but would be an interesting case anyway (and a huge waste if airline used its it skills to do that rather than create automatic notification in case of itinerary changes!!!!! )