Whittier tunnel fiasco - Fri 7/18
Jul 19, 2008, 1:20 am
#1
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Whittier tunnel fiasco - Fri 7/18
I will post a full trip report soon (I've been in AK for a week now on our long-planned trip), but I wanted to post this particular issue ASAP, for others who might be in the area soon, or for those locals who might know "the deal" on this:
Today during our AK trip, we took the 26 Glacier Cruise out of Whittier, and the following thing happened: The majority of passengers were boarded promptly prior to the 1PM departure time, but then we were informed that our departure would be delayed due to a technical switching glitch at the Whittier Tunnel, which was preventing 20-25 additional scheduled passengers from reaching our departure on time. Finally, 1.25 hours later, it was determined that the problem was not yet resolved at the tunnel, and our cruise finally left without them. (Most of us already on board were surprised they waited that long; after all, scheduling glitches happen, and when they do it's usually "them's the breaks", right?)
Well, while were happy to finally depart and not sad at all for those who missed the boat, payback/karma is a b*tch: The same glitch happened to us on our way out of Whittier at 7PM, and we were trapped there until 9:30PM...a long line of angry travelers, many of whom had flights to catch or other plans.
One of the workers there explained to us that what had happened earlier to the others, and to us at this time, was as follows:
Apparently the Alaska RR train "controls" the power to the tunnel at all times. Somehow when the train went through, it failed to relinquish power back to the non-RR traffic (the switching mechanisms, I guess?). So, since apparently there is only exactly one person in the entire state of Alaska capable of clearing the switch failure, we were forced to wait for that person to return to Whittier to make it happen (and apparently this was also the case earlier in the day...same dude, same issue - he wasn't nearby).
My wife and I could only surmise that perhaps this is some sort of union-labor issue...why else would the workers on hand not be allowed to allow traffic through manually, a la flagmen at a road construction site when only one lane is allowed through?
Thoughts/discussion, folks?
Today during our AK trip, we took the 26 Glacier Cruise out of Whittier, and the following thing happened: The majority of passengers were boarded promptly prior to the 1PM departure time, but then we were informed that our departure would be delayed due to a technical switching glitch at the Whittier Tunnel, which was preventing 20-25 additional scheduled passengers from reaching our departure on time. Finally, 1.25 hours later, it was determined that the problem was not yet resolved at the tunnel, and our cruise finally left without them. (Most of us already on board were surprised they waited that long; after all, scheduling glitches happen, and when they do it's usually "them's the breaks", right?)
Well, while were happy to finally depart and not sad at all for those who missed the boat, payback/karma is a b*tch: The same glitch happened to us on our way out of Whittier at 7PM, and we were trapped there until 9:30PM...a long line of angry travelers, many of whom had flights to catch or other plans.
One of the workers there explained to us that what had happened earlier to the others, and to us at this time, was as follows:
Apparently the Alaska RR train "controls" the power to the tunnel at all times. Somehow when the train went through, it failed to relinquish power back to the non-RR traffic (the switching mechanisms, I guess?). So, since apparently there is only exactly one person in the entire state of Alaska capable of clearing the switch failure, we were forced to wait for that person to return to Whittier to make it happen (and apparently this was also the case earlier in the day...same dude, same issue - he wasn't nearby).
My wife and I could only surmise that perhaps this is some sort of union-labor issue...why else would the workers on hand not be allowed to allow traffic through manually, a la flagmen at a road construction site when only one lane is allowed through?
Thoughts/discussion, folks?
Jul 19, 2008, 6:30 am
#2
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Letting cars use the Whittier tunnel at all was a huge issue that was debated for decades. The tunnel was built to make Whittier an alternate port for Anchorage during WWII. It was trains only for a very long time. Some of the people who live in Whittier wanted the ability to drive the tunnel with the excuse of emergency services and others didn't want the change.
It was ultimately nagged through by the cruise industry which threatened to stop using the port of Whitter. The railroad reserved the right to stop non-train traffic at any time on any day.
People who don't know Alaska assume the tunnel schedule is a fixed deal and runs fine all the time. That is far from true. Any vehicle with mechanical problems can stop the traffic. In case of a major accident the railroad reserves the right to cancel the deal all together.
It is a lot of the typical cruise and tourist industry trying to force change in Alaska. The buses taking passengers to the ships used to have to be driven up on to the train to go through the tunnels. It took time and cost money.
People who book airplane flights on the belief that the tunnel schedule will work for them don't know Alaska.
Back in the old days there was a flag stop near Portgage Glacier where we could board a train and ride to Whittier. You could park there but there was no platform. When you returned from Whittier and made to get off to get back to your car, people would scream warnings to make sure you had a car or someone picking you up, especially in winter as there were no services at that stop. They didn't want you to freeze to death.
So I'm saying what the OP witnessed was not a fiasco but normal life in Alaska. If one guy with a flat tire can close the tunnel about anything else can do so. Also don't believe whatever rumors circulate about why the tunnel is closed to vehicles. Rumors are cheap in Alaska.
It was ultimately nagged through by the cruise industry which threatened to stop using the port of Whitter. The railroad reserved the right to stop non-train traffic at any time on any day.
People who don't know Alaska assume the tunnel schedule is a fixed deal and runs fine all the time. That is far from true. Any vehicle with mechanical problems can stop the traffic. In case of a major accident the railroad reserves the right to cancel the deal all together.
It is a lot of the typical cruise and tourist industry trying to force change in Alaska. The buses taking passengers to the ships used to have to be driven up on to the train to go through the tunnels. It took time and cost money.
People who book airplane flights on the belief that the tunnel schedule will work for them don't know Alaska.
Back in the old days there was a flag stop near Portgage Glacier where we could board a train and ride to Whittier. You could park there but there was no platform. When you returned from Whittier and made to get off to get back to your car, people would scream warnings to make sure you had a car or someone picking you up, especially in winter as there were no services at that stop. They didn't want you to freeze to death.
So I'm saying what the OP witnessed was not a fiasco but normal life in Alaska. If one guy with a flat tire can close the tunnel about anything else can do so. Also don't believe whatever rumors circulate about why the tunnel is closed to vehicles. Rumors are cheap in Alaska.
Last edited by oldpenny16; Jul 19, 2008 at 6:38 am
Jul 19, 2008, 6:58 am
#3
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Agree wholeheartedly with oldpenny. Alaska is still wild. Plan for it. And remember that most places in Alaska are accessible by precisely one road (that is, if they are accessible by road at all). If that road is impassable, there's no going around (like there is in the Lower 48).
Now, admittedly, I default to the typical non-Alaskan fast-paced, last-minute life and would be ticked if this had happened to me, but having lived here for 13 years, I understand and accept that things like this happen.
Also, I wouldn't necessarily say that it's a union/labor thing with the railroad (although there is a slight possibility that this is the case, and I tend to side with those who think that many union rules are silly and unnecessary). More likely, it is that the Alaska Railroad had to follow strict operating rules for overriding a signal malfunction--probably that either a signal maintaner has to come fix the problem, or a maintenance of way crew has to take the track out of service. (I don't know specifically, as I never worked in MOW and never had to learn their procedures.) If the nearest signal maintainer or MOW foreman is in Anchorage, then there's your delay right there. If they allow vehicle traffic on the tracks without following strictly prescribed rules (which may have their backing in federal law), they may be subject to fines from the Federal Railroad Administration or severe legal action if a train happened to enter the tunnel and cause an accident with a vehicle (not a likely circumstance, since the dispatcher would know of the malfunction and would not authorize movement in the area, but a chance nonetheless).
Now, admittedly, I default to the typical non-Alaskan fast-paced, last-minute life and would be ticked if this had happened to me, but having lived here for 13 years, I understand and accept that things like this happen.
Also, I wouldn't necessarily say that it's a union/labor thing with the railroad (although there is a slight possibility that this is the case, and I tend to side with those who think that many union rules are silly and unnecessary). More likely, it is that the Alaska Railroad had to follow strict operating rules for overriding a signal malfunction--probably that either a signal maintaner has to come fix the problem, or a maintenance of way crew has to take the track out of service. (I don't know specifically, as I never worked in MOW and never had to learn their procedures.) If the nearest signal maintainer or MOW foreman is in Anchorage, then there's your delay right there. If they allow vehicle traffic on the tracks without following strictly prescribed rules (which may have their backing in federal law), they may be subject to fines from the Federal Railroad Administration or severe legal action if a train happened to enter the tunnel and cause an accident with a vehicle (not a likely circumstance, since the dispatcher would know of the malfunction and would not authorize movement in the area, but a chance nonetheless).
Jul 19, 2008, 9:34 am
#4
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jackal, perhaps we are related! My late Dad used to say that Alaska will get even with you when you least expect it.
I believe that!
Cruise passengers are not exempt from this!
One of my neighbors cruised to Alaska and hasn't stopped complaining that she got her feet wet and ruined a pair of very expensive shoes while on that trip. All else was lost to her notice.
I believe that!
Cruise passengers are not exempt from this!
One of my neighbors cruised to Alaska and hasn't stopped complaining that she got her feet wet and ruined a pair of very expensive shoes while on that trip. All else was lost to her notice.
Jul 19, 2008, 10:09 am
#5
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Business As Usual - Our Experience Too
We did the Whittier thing with Eco Sound Tours, and upon arrival at the tunnel found it closed for the same "switching problem". Adding to our issue was that it was early Sunday morning. As I recall, it was a three hour delay. Forutnately, we were the only ones going out with Capt. Gerry, so once we reached him by cell phone (amazing in and of itself!) he was good to wait for us. It did cut our tour by about an hour due to late afternoon weather, but a good time was had in spite of the early problem. We actually made the best of it and headed down to check out the entrance to the Kenai area and enjoyed some time at the glacier at the turnaround near the tunnel.
Last edited by TimeshareVon; Jul 19, 2008 at 10:15 am
Jul 19, 2008, 10:09 am
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Thanks for the responses, OldPenny and Jackal.
Let me be clear: I wholeheartedly agree with you both re "not expecting the tunnel (or anything else) to run on schedule or otherwise according to plan" in Alaska. Having done my proper pre-trip research all over the 'Net and of course here on FT (thanks to all here, by the way!) beforehand, I've been ready for everything during this AK trip, and in the situation yesterday we had plenty of reading material and puzzle books with us, as well as snacks and bottled water, and just sat and relaxed in our car, while so many of those around us were in an "OMG!" and "Someone should be fired over this!" panic about the delay.
And as to one of your other comments: While I can see SOME of the advantages to doing the whole cruise thing to (and in) AK, having now done it independently, and having also chatted with many cruise people during our outings on 2 different day cruises, the Denali shuttle, and various other venues, I can say wholeheartedly that I can't CONCEIVE of the idea of relinquishing total control and having to adopt the utter structure of such a trip the way the cruise folks do. (Of course, like most here on FT I'm a Type A Control Freak, so that's certainly understandable!). I've also found it amusing listening to many of these cruise folks tell me how "great" everything about their experiences has been, perhaps because they believe it has, but more likely (I think, in my cynical heart) because they feel they have to justify their decision to travel that way.
Let me be clear: I wholeheartedly agree with you both re "not expecting the tunnel (or anything else) to run on schedule or otherwise according to plan" in Alaska. Having done my proper pre-trip research all over the 'Net and of course here on FT (thanks to all here, by the way!) beforehand, I've been ready for everything during this AK trip, and in the situation yesterday we had plenty of reading material and puzzle books with us, as well as snacks and bottled water, and just sat and relaxed in our car, while so many of those around us were in an "OMG!" and "Someone should be fired over this!" panic about the delay.
And as to one of your other comments: While I can see SOME of the advantages to doing the whole cruise thing to (and in) AK, having now done it independently, and having also chatted with many cruise people during our outings on 2 different day cruises, the Denali shuttle, and various other venues, I can say wholeheartedly that I can't CONCEIVE of the idea of relinquishing total control and having to adopt the utter structure of such a trip the way the cruise folks do. (Of course, like most here on FT I'm a Type A Control Freak, so that's certainly understandable!). I've also found it amusing listening to many of these cruise folks tell me how "great" everything about their experiences has been, perhaps because they believe it has, but more likely (I think, in my cynical heart) because they feel they have to justify their decision to travel that way.
Jul 19, 2008, 11:14 am
#7
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If I cruise to Alaska...
it is for transportation. Used to be your could pick up a cheap cruise out of Seattle or Vancouver and get your meals and etc for less than the price of an airline ticket.
I agree about being cooped up and being in a herd!
You were wise to be an independent traveler to Alaska, but not all folks can do that. Emotionally, physically or even financially.
I am starting to really dislike the cruise ships now that the mega liners are going to Alaska.
I have walked over a lot of Alaska and don't regret a single step. Glad that I did most of it when young enough to be able to do so.
The weather today in Juneau is absolutely awful. The complaints from cruise passengers will be significant and they will tell their friends and neighbors.
I really don't care.
I agree about being cooped up and being in a herd!
You were wise to be an independent traveler to Alaska, but not all folks can do that. Emotionally, physically or even financially.
I am starting to really dislike the cruise ships now that the mega liners are going to Alaska.
I have walked over a lot of Alaska and don't regret a single step. Glad that I did most of it when young enough to be able to do so.
The weather today in Juneau is absolutely awful. The complaints from cruise passengers will be significant and they will tell their friends and neighbors.
I really don't care.
Jul 19, 2008, 5:08 pm
#8
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I find complaints about the weather astonishing (both in this context here (AK) in which we're discussing it, and also when weather-related flight delays happen in general). I mean, you can complain about poor customer service, etc., but the weather? I don't care if you're a religious person or not, the weather is controlled by a higher power (either your chosen deity, or science)...it's not subject to complaint. You plan for it, you plan around it, and you can't avoid it. And yet, as you say, so many of the cruise clowns will do just that (complain about it), instead of focusing on what should have been the positives of their once-in-a-lifetime adventure. Unbelievable.
Jul 19, 2008, 8:13 pm
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Jul 19, 2008, 8:41 pm
#11
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jackal, we will meet up. Sooner or later. My intended vacation in ANC area planned for this Oct got over run by 2 work trips.
I don't 'do' Alaska during tourist season. Oct, Nov or March, April and that is all. First sign of a cruise bus or ship and I flee!
I don't 'do' Alaska during tourist season. Oct, Nov or March, April and that is all. First sign of a cruise bus or ship and I flee!
Jul 20, 2008, 4:37 pm
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Not sure if that question was directed at me or not, but in case it was: I'm back home in Biloxi, MS as of this evening. I will post a FT-pertinent trip report here soon.
Jul 20, 2008, 6:27 pm
#15
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And as to one of your other comments: While I can see SOME of the advantages to doing the whole cruise thing to (and in) AK, having now done it independently, and having also chatted with many cruise people during our outings on 2 different day cruises, the Denali shuttle, and various other venues, I can say wholeheartedly that I can't CONCEIVE of the idea of relinquishing total control and having to adopt the utter structure of such a trip the way the cruise folks do. (Of course, like most here on FT I'm a Type A Control Freak, so that's certainly understandable!). I've also found it amusing listening to many of these cruise folks tell me how "great" everything about their experiences has been, perhaps because they believe it has, but more likely (I think, in my cynical heart) because they feel they have to justify their decision to travel that way.
I have never cruised ... Alaska or anywhere else. To be cooped up in a moving hotel for days on end, with only touristy diversions in some of the ports, makes me turn green.
One of my funniest experiences in AK was watching the hordes getting off the cruise ships in Skagway ... they quickly descended upon the first "souvenir" store in sight, where everything is made in China. We had just completed our Chilkoot Trail hike, and we were pretty dirty and smelly ... and the cruisers that we passed by on the streets (we were going back to the hostel) looked at us as if we were refugees. If only they knew what they'd missed ...