Upgrade only avail from agent?

[mikelat]

Flew flt 604 sea to las today and ran into odd behavior with upgrades. When I checked in online it didn't show any upgrade option. When I got to airport this morning I went to the self check machine and tried again - still no upgrade option. The Alaska site showed 5 avail in first but still no option for upgrade. Figuring I may as well, I asked a MVP Gold/first class agent if any were available. To my surprise, she said yes. I gladly pd my $50 and got the upgrade. But I'm wondering why it didn't show online. Will I likely run in to same thing on return flight?

Just wondering how to have beat odds at getting upgrade. Used to be if I checked in way early I'd get the option. Have things changed there in past two years?

[COpltASgldPHX]

What was the fare class of the original ticket? Look at your original coach boarding pass. It will read AS604X where X is the fare class. If it is anything other than Y, S, B, M, or H then technically you should only have been offered the paid upgrade at the gate. Only those fare classes will be offered paid upgrades when available either during OLCI, at the ITM, or the ticket counter.

[beckoa]

It also depends on when they release these seats for upgrade (with status, miles, coupons or $)... there seems to be no rhyme or reason (from what us armchair folks can tell ) to how U class is released... since that is ultimately the pool the upgrades come from...

[COpltASgldPHX]

Originally Posted by beckoa

It also depends on when they release these seats for upgrade (with status, miles, coupons or $)... there seems to be no rhyme or reason (from what us armchair folks can tell ) to how U class is released... since that is ultimately the pool the upgrades come from...

If the OP was on an upgradable (Y,S,B,M,H) fare it would mean U space was released between the time he checked the ITM and the time he checked with the agent. I'm thinking he was on a lower fare and got lucky when he was upgraded by the ticket counter.

[CDKing]

Originally Posted by COpltASgldPHX

I'm thinking he was on a lower fare and got lucky when he was upgraded by the ticket counter.

My guess is the OP was on Bargin or Hot Deals fare as well. I remember seeing something in the thread about U upgrades (Couldn't find it using search??) It was mentioned that AS put a block in so people flying on lower fare classes weren't able to line jump and get paid upgrades in front of MVP/G's free upgrades.

I'm assuming its very rare that U inventory would open in the few minutes it took to go from the kiosk to the agent?

[deelmakur]

This has been my issue with the program. The incentive to fly more is what the Gold, and other loyalty programs, are all about. Originally, knowing that every F seat would not sell in advance, some U bucket inventory was set aside for purchase at a higher cost, but less than full boat. I fly SEA-EWR regularly. I don't want to pay $1200, but I will pay a premium. When U inventory on that route was available in advance, it cost somewhere between $700-$900 RT. I had no issue with that, but the company evidently feels it is more productive to push the upgrade process to the gate, where it can be quite random. It's their candy store, but also being a CO Platinum, I am able to buy that same seat on Continental, on most flights to and from EWR, for around $850 (Elite Upgrade Fare). It hasn't been a tough choice. I guarantee you AS is not averaging that, and the process described in this thread would suggest that the program needs a review.

[COpltASgldPHX]

Originally Posted by deelmakur

This has been my issue with the program. The incentive to fly more is what the Gold, and other loyalty programs, are all about. Originally, knowing that every F seat would not sell in advance, some U bucket inventory was set aside for purchase at a higher cost, but less than full boat. I fly SEA-EWR regularly. I don't want to pay $1200, but I will pay a premium. When U inventory on that route was available in advance, it cost somewhere between $700-$900 RT. I had no issue with that, but the company evidently feels it is more productive to push the upgrade process to the gate, where it can be quite random. It's their candy store, but also being a CO Platinum, I am able to buy that same seat on Continental, on most flights to and from EWR, for around $850 (Elite Upgrade Fare). It hasn't been a tough choice. I guarantee you AS is not averaging that, and the process described in this thread would suggest that the program needs a review.

U has never been used as a revenue fare bucket. All AS F fares book into the F bucket. I have seen, for example in the PHX-SEA market, an advance purchase F fare (FAS7R) that was slightly (but not a lot) less than the full F fare (FASR) but otherwise AS doesn't have discounted F fares like CO, DL, etc.

[hgdf]

Originally Posted by deelmakur

This has been my issue with the program. The incentive to fly more is what the Gold, and other loyalty programs, are all about. Originally, knowing that every F seat would not sell in advance, some U bucket inventory was set aside for purchase at a higher cost, but less than full boat. I fly SEA-EWR regularly. I don't want to pay $1200, but I will pay a premium. When U inventory on that route was available in advance, it cost somewhere between $700-$900 RT. I had no issue with that, but the company evidently feels it is more productive to push the upgrade process to the gate, where it can be quite random. It's their candy store, but also being a CO Platinum, I am able to buy that same seat on Continental, on most flights to and from EWR, for around $850 (Elite Upgrade Fare). It hasn't been a tough choice. I guarantee you AS is not averaging that, and the process described in this thread would suggest that the program needs a review.

In any case, whenever U inventory is released, whether it be a month out or 30 minutes prior to departure, shouldn't the qualifying elites on the waiting list be cleared before paid upgrades are offered?

It seems like a recipe for animosity if they've got a waiting list of elites siting on the podium while offering paid upgrades to non elites on bargain fares. I suspect the problem may lie with official policy not being followed by gate agents when last minute upgrades become available. It could be that when a customer is hounding them at the podium, begging for a paid upgrade some GA's may decide to discretely take them ahead of the waiting list, thinking they're doing the company a favor. When an MVP/G's catch wind of this, it's like...what the...? [apparently abbreviated expletives are automatically redacted]

Bottom like, they shouldn't be offering paid upgrades to anyone an hour before departure if there's anyone on that list unless they're willing to pay full F.

I agree that it's often worth it to buy an H fare to get the instant upgrade when you know that U inventory is likely to be low at the 72 hour mark, especially when traveling with a non-elite companion. I think this is a perfectly reasonable way for AS to put the higher paying elites at the head of the line.

[CDKing]

Please note the OP does not have status on AS.

[eponymous_coward]

I guarantee you AS is not averaging that, and the process described in this thread would suggest that the program needs a review.

Uh, with all due respect, I know the lack of U fare buckets on transcons an issue you push at every available opportunity, but on this one you're talking through your hat. Your issue and what the OP encountered are apples and oranges.

The OP is a non-status AS customer describing a midmorning SEA-LAS flight (604). I regularly clear 72 hour waitlist upgrades on SEA-LAS flights on G/T "hot deals" fares (go look at my posts in the "my upgrade did/didn't clear thread"- I also almost NEVER buy into an immediate upgrade bucket)- sometimes on standby at the airport. In fact, F availability during checkin (and gate announcements of "you can buy an upgrade for $50") are pretty routine going SEA-LAS, SEA-Bay Area and SEA-Greater LA, so we can broadly apply what I say here to most of AS's West Coast routes (haven't flown SEA-PHX, SEA-SAN so can't say if F upgrades clear at 72 hours there).

People are much more willing to pay a premium on a 5-6 hour transcon than on a 2 hour flight (which is why you will see much more U on SEA-LAS than SEA-EWR- as isn't stupid, they don't give away things they don't think they could sell a lot of anyway). Keep in mind that on many of the West Coast routes, AS has heavy competition with WN and B6, who offer NO F- so the customers AS are selling to are used to coach seats for 2 hours. Basically, if you want to spend a lot of your time in an AS F cabin without paying for F, your best bet is to be on mainline out of SEA flying to destinations in the Pacific Time Zone. Otherwise... caveat emptor.

So, in short, this isn't a case of "Gosh, AS should be offering more fares that go into the U bucket going SEA-LAS"- in fact, they do (if you don't believe me, do some dummy bookings- I will bet you find a TON of immediately-upgradable fares for MVP/MVPG). Your problem is really a different one than this.

[hgdf]

Originally Posted by eponymous_coward

People are much more willing to pay a premium on a 5-6 hour transcon than on a 2 hour flight (which is why you will see much more U on SEA-LAS than SEA-EWR- as isn't stupid, they don't give away things they don't think they could sell a lot of anyway). Keep in mind that on many of the West Coast routes, AS has heavy competition with WN and B6, who offer NO F- so the customers AS are selling to are used to coach seats for 2 hours. Basically, if you want to spend a lot of your time in an AS F cabin without paying for F, your best bet is to be on mainline out of SEA flying to destinations in the Pacific Time Zone. Otherwise... caveat emptor.

I think the issue isn't that they don't offer U seats on the transcons, but that more elites are willing to book higher fare buckets in order to snap them up earlier. Anyone who's flown SEA-EWR, SEA-DCA, or SEA-ORD has no doubt witnessed the throng of 50+ MVPG crowding the gate at boarding time. Even if they all book in H, there are only so many seats in F to be had.

[COpltASgldPHX]

Originally Posted by hgdf

I think the issue isn't that they don't offer U seats on the transcons, but that more elites are willing to book higher fare buckets in order to snap them up earlier. Anyone who's flown SEA-EWR, SEA-DCA, or SEA-ORD has no doubt witnessed the throng of 50+ MVPG crowding the gate at boarding time. Even if they all book in H, there are only so many seats in F to be had.

It's the same over at CO. Elite's who book a Y or B economy class fare are entitles to an immediate space-available upgrade and CO is much more generous than AS when it comes to making that space available. Of course, CO F has more seats to begin with. CO flights out of SEA, SFO and LAX are often FULL in F days before the EUA's start processing. It's mostly paid F or elites buying the Y and B fares. Let's not single out Alaska and make them appear miserly when they are merely doing a goood job of revenue management.

Originally Posted by deelmakur

I guarantee you AS is not averaging that, and the process described in this thread would suggest that the program needs a review.

It's not the program that needs a review, but the process.

Originally Posted by hgdf

In any case, whenever U inventory is released, whether it be a month out or 30 minutes prior to departure, shouldn't the qualifying elites on the waiting list be cleared before paid upgrades are offered?

Agreed, and this has been discussed ad nauseum in other threads. AS needs to fix the upgrade process inside the 24 hour window to allow real-time clearance from the elite upgrade waitlist.

[eponymous_coward]

I think the issue isn't that they don't offer U seats on the transcons, but that more elites are willing to book higher fare buckets in order to snap them up earlier.

You mean F?

Anyways, whatever the case, I can tell you from experience that what the OP encountered (gate availability of F5 U5 on SEA-LAS) is a) not unusual on a West Coast flight and b) has nothing to do with how AS manages their U inventory SEA-EWR- these are two very different markets (big hint: WN flies SEA-LAS, not SEA-EWR).

Oh, and I might as well answer this:

Will I likely run in to same thing on return flight?

Possibly. Depends on time of day and when you fly. 7:00 am on a Tuesday, very likely. 4:00 pm on a Sunday, forget it (honeymooners and vacationers often buy up F long before anyone gets offered an upgrade). But yes, OLCI paid upgrades only happen on higher coach fares- gate paid upgrades happen on ANY coach fare.

[hgdf]

Originally Posted by eponymous_coward

You mean F?

Anyways, whatever the case, I can tell you from experience that what the OP encountered (gate availability of F5 U5 on SEA-LAS) is a) not unusual on a West Coast flight and b) has nothing to do with how AS manages their U inventory SEA-EWR- these are two very different markets (big hint: WN flies SEA-LAS, not SEA-EWR).

As long as they aren't holding out for paid upgrades at the gate when there are 5 MVPG's on the F waiting list, which is what I think deelmakur was alluding to. If they're offering paid upgrades, it should be because there's U space open, and if there's U space open, then it should go to qualifying elites before they try selling them to the hoi palloi.

[eponymous_coward]

As long as they aren't holding out for paid upgrades at the gate when there are 5 MVPG's on the F waiting list, which is what I think deelmakur was alluding to.

That doesn't happen in my experience. SEA-LAS is a very easy route to score F on waitlist, as I mentioned (though the service drawdowns have reduced that some, on occasions), and while on some occasions F sells out before you hit the waitlist, there's usually U bucket availability until F is occupied. I can pretty much definitively say I have never had F offered at the gate for $50 over the PA and not already been in the F cabin already on SEA-LAS.

The transcon problem being described is different, which is that revenue management never releases anything into the U bucket, period, and it's gate lotto for upgrades, if that.