Programs: AS MVPG, DL GM, UA 3P, PriorityClub Platinum, Marriott Silver, SPG Gold
Posts: 2,672
Quote:
Originally Posted by GUWonder
Having affairs with various airlines but not marrying any of them seems to have been a strategy that worked well enough for AS, but I wouldn't rule an entry into SkyTeam out. But what does AS have to gain by no longer sleeping around with airlines regardless of alliance membership?
Who knows what goes on at these closed-door partnership meetings. Perhaps AS was strongarmed into the three tier award by DL/NW. Maybe SkyTeam is giving incentives/pressuring AS to join. Maybe AS came up with it by following the leaders downhill.
Sounds like Delta SkyMiles' changes have infected Alaska Airlines.
Please don't peddle that crap in this forum. AS, like every other airline, has been hit hard by oil prices. There is not a single airline that has not changed the terms of the frequent flier program in the past 18 months. Most have been significantly more drastic.
While the AS50 award changes are particularly more devastating, I think that raising the redemption levels is preferred to levying a fuel surcharge.
Programs: HH Silver, US Silver, CO Nonepass, AS Non-MVP
Posts: 4,790
Quote:
Originally Posted by makfan
Well, if you use an AS50 to bring a $600 ticket down to $350, why shouldn't you accrue miles? The AS50 is getting you 1.6 cents per mile for the $250 discount, but you still have significant cash out of pocket. I thought that's why they changed it a few years ago to cap the discount at $250--to avoid giving you a $900 transcon for $450.
After some thought, I came up with an idea. If you are flying on an AS50, you should accumulate 50% of the total miles! It would have been an ingenious twist by AS that would have been very hard to argue with (although disappointment would be okay).
Oh well, that's why I don't work for an airline anymore!
Programs: AS MVPG, DL GM, UA 3P, PriorityClub Platinum, Marriott Silver, SPG Gold
Posts: 2,672
Quote:
Originally Posted by sxf24
Please don't peddle that crap in this forum. AS, like every other airline, has been hit hard by oil prices. There is not a single airline that has not changed the terms of the frequent flier program in the past 18 months. Most have been significantly more drastic.
While the AS50 award changes are particularly more devastating, I think that raising the redemption levels is preferred to levying a fuel surcharge.
Actually to me, there's not much difference any more. DL charges a fuel surcharge on award tx, AS charges me (MVP) a baggage surcharge (DL baggage allowance for all medallion members is 3x70lbs free). The largest difference is that SkyMiles inflation includes increased earning capabilities (promos everywhere) while MP does not. So my SkyMiles are cheaper to get, but my MP awards now cost the same to use.
Please don't peddle that crap in this forum. AS, like every other airline, has been hit hard by oil prices. There is not a single airline that has not changed the terms of the frequent flier program in the past 18 months.
Does the truth sting you? Characterizing my statement however you want doesn't change anything. DL's infection is spreading. The AS50 changes are yet another indication of that disease spreading.
The following statement:
Quote:
Originally Posted by sxf24
There is not a single airline that has not changed the terms of the frequent flier program in the past 18 months.
is a falsehood even if someone doesn't know how so. If someone did proper research, they'd soon know that the claim made above by sxf24 obviously has missed at least one airline's FFP.
__________________
This game is not as much fun as it used to be: 2008/2009 Frequent Flyer Program Fleecing Award goes to Delta Airlines
I think a $25 fee for PARTNER redemptions is not unreasonable. How is it SERIOUSLY devaluing the program??? C'mon now people! Yes, it's a minor nuisance but "seriously devaluing".
It's the overall issue... all these things added up are really too much to me.
I have already made Gold for next year, but I'll certainly be looking carefully when I start 09 looking at 2010. AS still has some great things about it's mileage plan, and like I mentioned, I am FINE with a $25 fee when I book a $10K ticket... NO BIGGIE... but all this together is just too much.
NOT THAT IT WOULD DO ANY GOOD, but would any in the group want to send a group letter to Steve Jarvis, and Rick Rasmuson and possible Ann Ardizone (spelling?) and let them know that as they're most frequent and probably highest dollar providers for the company, we are pretty unhappy?
I think I will begin formulating something, but I'd love input from fellow FTers.
Programs: AS MVPG, DL GM, UA 3P, PriorityClub Platinum, Marriott Silver, SPG Gold
Posts: 2,672
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanny
NOT THAT IT WOULD DO ANY GOOD, but would any in the group want to send a group letter to Steve Jarvis, and Rick Rasmuson and possible Ann Ardizone (spelling?) and let them know that as they're most frequent and probably highest dollar providers for the company, we are pretty unhappy?
I think I will begin formulating something, but I'd love input from fellow FTers.
This has done good in the past. DL rolled back some unpopular changes due to campaigns started here on FT.
This has done good in the past. DL rolled back some unpopular changes due to campaigns started here on FT.
Sign me up!
If I remember right, after NW introduced the worthless "CoachChoice" option... after a huge number of us put in complaint letters, some of the features were also rolled back, at least for Elites.
Actually to me, there's not much difference any more. DL charges a fuel surcharge on award tx, AS charges me (MVP) a baggage surcharge (DL baggage allowance for all medallion members is 3x70lbs free). The largest difference is that SkyMiles inflation includes increased earning capabilities (promos everywhere) while MP does not. So my SkyMiles are cheaper to get, but my MP awards now cost the same to use.
I guess it depends on your travel patterns and style.
I never check luggage domestically and like to accumulate miles from AS, AA and NW in a single program. That ability alone makes MP attractive to me.
In my opinion, SkyMiles is a descent program (partially due to the ease of accrual). Its my secondary program behind AS and I'm generally satisfied.
Does the truth sting you? Characterizing my statement however you want doesn't change anything. DL's infection is spreading. The AS50 changes are yet another indication of that disease spreading.
This is not a "Delta infection." I've repeated, over and over again, that the changes in the domestic airline's business models are being driven by oil. While the competitive landscape would certainly play into consideration, DL was not the first airline to adjust its program and it is (and will not be) the "worst."
Do the changes suck? Yes.
Do they reflect a new reality? Absolutely.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GUWonder
The following statement [snip]is a falsehood even if someone doesn't know how so. If someone did proper research, they'd soon know that the claim made above by sxf24 obviously has missed at least one airline's FFP.
Well, I did paint myself into a corner.
I guess I intended to limit my comments to major carriers. There is not a single major domestic carrier that has not changed the terms of their frequent flier program in the past 18 months.
There's no new reality. Things are largely as they have been before. Oil has even fallen more than 15% from the recent highs yet there's no 15% reduction in this FFP hit or that FFP hit announced. DL's infection spreads, regardless of oil prices, and now AS has the disease too. Want to treat some of the symptoms, flood AS management with communication expressing your concerns -- and even that is far from a guaranteed cure after the disease has struck.
__________________
This game is not as much fun as it used to be: 2008/2009 Frequent Flyer Program Fleecing Award goes to Delta Airlines
Programs: AS MVP, One Pass, Starwood, Marriot Rewards,Sky Miles, AMEX Miles
Posts: 285
a letter of objections
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanny
If I remember right, after NW introduced the worthless "CoachChoice" option... after a huge number of us put in complaint letters, some of the features were also rolled back, at least for Elites.
I think Lanny has the right idea; a letter outlining some specific objections to the changes, my numero uno is the AS50 changes.
__________________
"All the lives we could live, all the people we will never know, never will be, they are everywhere...." AH
Programs: AS MVPG, DL GM, UA 3P, PriorityClub Platinum, Marriott Silver, SPG Gold
Posts: 2,672
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPat
I think Lanny has the right idea; a letter outlining some specific objections to the changes, my numero uno is the AS50 changes.
I rarely use the AS50 myself. To me, the loss of the industry leading 20k domestic award (which was only available on AS/Horizon flights anyway) is the biggest blow.
Since there is no transparency as far as award availability is concerned, it is hard to predict how a three tier system will affect Mileage Plan members. If 25k SuperSavers are next to impossible to find, there will be another nail in the coffin of MP for me.
Programs: AS MVP, One Pass, Starwood, Marriot Rewards,Sky Miles, AMEX Miles
Posts: 285
Quote:
Originally Posted by spgaston
I rarely use the AS50 myself. To me, the loss of the industry leading 20k domestic award (which was only available on AS/Horizon flights anyway) is the biggest blow.
Since there is no transparency as far as award availability is concerned, it is hard to predict how a three tier system will affect Mileage Plan members. If 25k SuperSavers are next to impossible to find, there will be another nail in the coffin of MP for me.
I have only used it a few times myself but it is a joyful moment when the miles show up in the account. My primary worry is that the lack of miles on these discounted fares opens the door to eliminating miles on all discounted fares. Such as the companion fare on the Visa card...
The Delta Amex companion fare only allows one traveler to earn miles. When someone is trying to keep status up for two people it is incrementally more difficult to keep within the travel budget and achieve status for the both of us.
I agree that AS FFP awards have been significantly better than other airlines but over the years this program has worked very well for us flying out of SEA. (Yes, we both long for the days when it only took 5K award miles to grab a seat in F.) As much as I hate to see the 20k level go the way of the blacksmith I can't really begrudge them the change. Especially in light of an earlier post about a MVPG lunch wherin the possibility of having a different award level for trancontinental flights was bandied about.
Can you imagine the hue and cry that would have stirred up?
__________________
"All the lives we could live, all the people we will never know, never will be, they are everywhere...." AH
Compared to the rest of the industry, Alaska's mileage plan "changes" are just a soft blow.
No fuel surcharge or fee with in alaska airlines / horizon air travel
No removal of the 500 minimum
Just a few thousand more miles for award tickets
No real changes to MVP that would anger a good customer
Other airline mileage plans have had *much* worse changes than that. My only concern now is the potential run on mile redemption taking place and elimination of award availability.
Annoying as the surcharges are, they are far more understandable as they bring in badly needed revenue to offset noticeably higher fuel costs. Raising the amount of miles for an award brings in $0.
The 500 minimum is not an issue for everyone, particularly those of us who don't fly short hauls.
However the very large increase in award prices is bound to piss off many "good customers" (myself included). Again, it brings in $0 in revenue because I won't be "buying" the ticket I would otherwise get for free, I'll simply not take the trip or even worse buy the competition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by spgaston
Sorry, that wasn't in the email message which is where I was basing my info.
So it's officially 25/40/55. Which may really mean 40/55 in practical terms, we shall wait and see.
PS, to me, this really, really sucks.
You hit the nail on the head. For those of you not familiar with what happened at DL, the 25k awards essentially don't exist unless you are looking to fly into Seattle on a cold Tuesday in January. So essentially 40k is the new 25k, which is a whopping 60% increase - well beyond what most other carriers have done over the last couple of years (compare to AA's increase announced earlier this year). And of course the F awards have increased to ridiculous levels - 100k for a "full flex" ticket in the continental U.S. - when compared with a possible alternative of a $30/$60 buy-up on a cheapo coach fare.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sxf24
Please don't peddle that crap in this forum. AS, like every other airline, has been hit hard by oil prices. There is not a single airline that has not changed the terms of the frequent flier program in the past 18 months. Most have been significantly more drastic.
While the AS50 award changes are particularly more devastating, I think that raising the redemption levels is preferred to levying a fuel surcharge.
Disagree. I would rather pay a $75 fuel surcharge than +25k miles. But I guess it all depends on how you value your miles.
Also both AA and UA recently increased "choice" level international business class roundtrip awards by 10k-20k miles - far less "drastic" than the new AS chart.
Quote:
Originally Posted by spgaston
I rarely use the AS50 myself. To me, the loss of the industry leading 20k domestic award (which was only available on AS/Horizon flights anyway) is the biggest blow.
Since there is no transparency as far as award availability is concerned, it is hard to predict how a three tier system will affect Mileage Plan members. If 25k SuperSavers are next to impossible to find, there will be another nail in the coffin of MP for me.
You got it. 20k (now 25k) awards as we knew them are essentially history, as the DL folks learned.
I don't begrudge airlines from increasing fares and fees in this challenging economic environment. But I really resent program changes which will do nothing for the bottom line except to put awards out of reach for the vast majority of flyers who - unlike many FTers - don't have huge balances.
