Location: NYC (CT suburbs), Gulf Stream, FL, and Seattle
Programs: CO Infinite Plat, AirTran Elite, AS MVPG, Delta GM, US PLat.
Posts: 2,918
I think people are missing the point. It's not about the nuances of how you use a particular award.The AS50 situation happens to provide a good example of how they are messing with the program. Fundamental changes, which don't save them a dime. Get it through your head. They don't give you the seat unless they can't sell it. That's why they pulled the transcon U bucket. With fewer than 40 first class seats a day to those places, in each direction, they have decided they'd rather try and sell them than reward someone spending tens of thousands (usually some company's money), by offering a better fare. This is about how they want to treat the core customer. Making changes in the MP program means little, if the inventory is never there. It's about telling the truth, and about getting off the customer's case. We are not the enemy. But making nickel and dime moves, while telling the world they have this fantastic program, and then passing off, substantive changes as "necessary" because of fuel costs, isn't right. If they can't sell seat 2D, giving it to someone who earned it by participating in a defined program, costs them almost nothing.They clearly have the right to run their business. Just level with people. By the same token, people have to stop treating the company like its being run by Mother Theresa. They (AS) are pushing harder than they have to.
Just a thought: Since both of those are tied to the use of the AS VISA, I have to wonder if those don't actually generate revenue for AS if BoF buys the miles from AS to give to its VISA customers. I don't have enough info to know, but if it generates revenue, I suspect AS will continue it if BofA wants to fund it. After all, it would make people less likely to get or use the VISA if there were fewer miles able to be earned, and using the VISA is both merchant fees and customer interest to BofA.
I'm not saying it's a great thing in terms of miles on the books, but it may be cash in hand for AS.
so now that 20k no longer can get an award does that mean BofA will raise it to 25k to sign up?
I think people are missing the point. It's not about the nuances of how you use a particular award.The AS50 situation happens to provide a good example of how they are messing with the program. Fundamental changes, which don't save them a dime. Get it through your head. They don't give you the seat unless they can't sell it. That's why they pulled the transcon U bucket. With fewer than 40 first class seats a day to those places, in each direction, they have decided they'd rather try and sell them than reward someone spending tens of thousands (usually some company's money), by offering a better fare. This is about how they want to treat the core customer. Making changes in the MP program means little, if the inventory is never there. It's about telling the truth, and about getting off the customer's case. We are not the enemy. But making nickel and dime moves, while telling the world they have this fantastic program, and then passing off, substantive changes as "necessary" because of fuel costs, isn't right. If they can't sell seat 2D, giving it to someone who earned it by participating in a defined program, costs them almost nothing.They clearly have the right to run their business. Just level with people. By the same token, people have to stop treating the company like its being run by Mother Theresa. They (AS) are pushing harder than they have to.
It does make you wonder how management feels they are really making any substantial savings by reducing AS50 miles to 50% vs. full mileage. Certainly the cost in good will is worth something.
Wonder if we will be asked to cast a vote for the Alaska Mileage program in
next year's Freddie Awards Hard to do with, as you say, such nickel and dime moves.
Here's a novel idea; why doesn't AS start charging BofA more for all of those miles they give to us?
I imagine AS charges as much as BofA is willing to pay.
Quote:
Originally Posted by spgaston
Additionally, gasoline has come down about 5% in my neighborhood in the past couple of weeks, can we expect a 5% rollback on the award (and other fee) price hikes?
Have awards (and other fee) price hikes matched the nearly 100% increase in fuel in the past year?
I think people are missing the point. It's not about the nuances of how you use a particular award.The AS50 situation happens to provide a good example of how they are messing with the program. Fundamental changes, which don't save them a dime. Get it through your head. They don't give you the seat unless they can't sell it. That's why they pulled the transcon U bucket. With fewer than 40 first class seats a day to those places, in each direction, they have decided they'd rather try and sell them than reward someone spending tens of thousands (usually some company's money), by offering a better fare. This is about how they want to treat the core customer. Making changes in the MP program means little, if the inventory is never there. It's about telling the truth, and about getting off the customer's case. We are not the enemy. But making nickel and dime moves, while telling the world they have this fantastic program, and then passing off, substantive changes as "necessary" because of fuel costs, isn't right. If they can't sell seat 2D, giving it to someone who earned it by participating in a defined program, costs them almost nothing.They clearly have the right to run their business. Just level with people. By the same token, people have to stop treating the company like its being run by Mother Theresa. They (AS) are pushing harder than they have to.
You're complaining about AS trying to sell its product, instead of give it away?!?!
so now that 20k no longer can get an award does that mean BofA will raise it to 25k to sign up?
I actually mentioned this to FAs on my last two flights -- that the 20K is not good for a free ticket anywhere AS flies in the continental US after November 1 -- and they were surprised. I'm hoping someone at inflight changes that script quickly so it doesn't mislead potential VISA applicants. Or BofA increases the sign-up bonus.
Location: NYC (CT suburbs), Gulf Stream, FL, and Seattle
Programs: CO Infinite Plat, AirTran Elite, AS MVPG, Delta GM, US PLat.
Posts: 2,918
sxf24, read what I said. They have the right to do what they want. I am talking about the seats they know they won't sell. No airline sells every seat on every flight (check the seat map for your next trip, a few days out, while your upgrade request sits). If they did, they wouldn't bother with these loyalty programs. This discussion is about changing the deal, doing what you claim you do, and not hiding behind fuel costs for everything you want to NOT do. It's not just airlines. The other day, I analyzed all those crazy add ons on car rentals, while having a moment at the gate to read my receipt. One of them was a "security charge", from an off airport location, no less. When was the last time you saw a metal detector at Hertz or Avis? It's endemic. You like paying these guys more, then I suggest you add a tip to your credit card charge when you buy your next ticket.
so now that 20k no longer can get an award does that mean BofA will raise it to 25k to sign up?
Won't they just about have to? Can't you see the poor FAs trying to hawk the Visa onboard having to say "Sign up today and you'll receive 80% of the miles you need for the lowest of three award levels?" That Visa must be awfully profitable to AS, as others have said, the way they push it. I won't be surprised if B of A raises the annual fee along with the rumored increase from $50 plus fees to $99 plus fees for the companion seat. See how much the customer will take.
Have awards (and other fee) price hikes matched the nearly 100% increase in fuel in the past year?
Now come on. I called you on this 100% increase business once before by pointing out the fact that AS has other expenses than fuel and that AS hedged part of their fuel for this year. Why do you keep trying to imply that a nearly 100% increase in fares/awards is in some way justified at this point? It's not a logical argument.
Interesting article in USA Today (here's the digital version: http://www.usatoday.com/money/biztra...nt-flier_N.htm) paper about how the carriers are selling miles to credit card issuing banks to use with their affinity cards, to raise cash. More airlines are looking in that direction, so as more are sold for quick cash, there will be more miles in more peoples MP accounts looking to be used on less flights (due to carriers scaling back the volume of flights).
Inflation not only hits the dollar...seems it's hitting the miles too.
Programs: Various bits of plastic with names of noble metals on them
Posts: 1,977
Quote:
The AS50 situation happens to provide a good example of how they are messing with the program. Fundamental changes, which don't save them a dime.
Er, you're saying that there's zero cost to issuing FF miles, so Alaska is arbitrarily reducing benefits to anger people for no good reason?
One would think if that's the case, and a FF program has no cost and all benefit in terms of customer goodwill, benefits would be getting more GENEROUS, not stingy. Alaska's executives aren't stupid- they are in business to make money.
Oh, and for all these "seats that are going unsold"- isn't Alaska going to be reducing capacity, and doesn't that mean less seats?
Quote:
Now come on. I called you on this 100% increase business once before by pointing out the fact that AS has other expenses than fuel and that AS hedged part of their fuel for this year. Why do you keep trying to imply that a nearly 100% increase in fares/awards is in some way justified at this point? It's not a logical argument.
With respect to mileage awards, it's more like 30%+.
I also haven't noticed fares being up 100% on MY routes (they are up... but I am seeing $119 each way advance fares SEA-LAS, too, which isn't bad- though up from last year, as well as $99 SEA-LAX)... but 80% of where I fly is also flown to by WN, which ends up being the market price setter.
Programs: HH Silver, US Silver, CO Nonepass, AS Non-MVP
Posts: 4,805
Quote:
Originally Posted by deelmakur
The other day, I analyzed all those crazy add ons on car rentals, while having a moment at the gate to read my receipt. One of them was a "security charge", from an off airport location, no less. When was the last time you saw a metal detector at Hertz or Avis? It's endemic. You like paying these guys more, then I suggest you add a tip to your credit card charge when you buy your next ticket.
To be fair to the car rentals, airport and city officials have placed MANY additional taxes on car rentals and hotels. With car rentals, much of it is pass through (airport charges $2.50/person for "access" to the rental car shuttles, city adds 5.75% rental car and hotel tax to pay for brand new NFL stadium, etc.).
What's questionable is some of the non-pass through charges. Perhaps the airport charges the rental car companies a "security" charge of $xxx,xxx per month. Does the rental car company pad the charge or charge the exact amount? The charge may come out to $1.58 per rental. Does the rental car company round that up to $5.00???
Programs: HH Silver, US Silver, CO Nonepass, AS Non-MVP
Posts: 4,805
Quote:
Originally Posted by TProphet
Because mileage flown never decreases, and the fares associated with that mileage rarely decrease either. When you're saving for a free ticket and the goal posts keep getting moved, it's awfully disheartening and frustrating.
In real terms, average fares have decreased dramatically since deregulation in 1978. Yes, we are starting to see them increase this year, but the price of fuel has increased significantly.
But let's not be too disingenuious here. AS cannot and, hopefully, will not give away the store. I want them to be around for a long time to come. Some of these changes were long overdue such as the 50% mileage credit for an AS50. AS has been very generous over the years, particularly to those of us in the lower 48. Their program continues to be one of the most flexible FF programs available.
Plus, they gave us a number of months to prepare for the changes. I suggest MR's if you are close to an award level.
If you don't want to do a mileage run, go buy a new house. Just got a Mileage Plan email on their bonus offers if you use Lending Tree in purchasing real estate.
Bonuses as much as 10,000 miles which could easily make up for miles lost with the AS50 reduction and mileage plan "restructuring".
Funny how they will will tinker with mileage awards in the name of cost savings yet come up with an arrangement like this. Yes, it is business but...
Location: NYC (CT suburbs), Gulf Stream, FL, and Seattle
Programs: CO Infinite Plat, AirTran Elite, AS MVPG, Delta GM, US PLat.
Posts: 2,918
Between Alaska and other programs, I have 1.2 million miles banked, yet when my wife and I went to the Far East in late March, the only way to clear what I needed was an AMEX 2 for 1 for 5 grand. The "breakage" (non use) on these miles is huge, primarily due to 2 factors. Firstly, you can only use them when they let you, which is kind of the point of this thread, or they are in thousands of small accounts, belonging to occasional flyers, who never accrue enough for a trip. Of course there is some expense in running the programs, but the databases, and ability to market those efficiently, saves these guys millions in advertising alone, not to mention research. So, you have offsetting reductions in other expense areas, and of course, the fact that you had to buy a ticket in the first place, to get EQM. That takes you to mileage runs, and additional travel, bought to make qualification requirements. These cutbacks are a function of the arrogance in the airline industry, where they think they control the playing field. And, thanks to us letting them get away with it, they do. Look at the fare search engines. At first, before they figured it out, those gave the customer tremendous leverage. Now, try to get one to sell you what you want. They take you to the flights they want to sell. Eventually, if you work at it, you get the one you really wanted, and discover the price is the same, so it couldn't have been on that criteria. Look, I like the airline, enough to where I held my nose, and paid over a thousand bucks for 2 one ways to Newark for today. I simply didn't want to play departure gate roulette. On the other hand, now that I am paying full whack, if CO or DL has a better schedule, bye folks. A deal is a deal. They should not be able to selectively honor those, and more to the point, don't insult people's intelligence. That sort of thing causes your better customer to get grumpy.
Hard to do with, as you say, such nickel and dime moves.
