Nov 22, 2012, 4:10 am
Last edit by: jackal
Welcome to the 
-- a place to just relax and have some fun. Stop in and see what's happening! 
-- a place to just relax and have some fun. Stop in and see what's happening! 
The Alaska Airlines Bored Room
Feb 3, 2016, 1:57 pm
#5521
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: SGF
Programs: AS, AA, UA, AGR S (former 75K, GLD, 1K, and S+, now an elite peon)
Posts: 23,194
If I did my math right, I think I was just blown away by a fact I've long assumed to be true but never before did the calculations to check.
I've long suspected that Anchorage had a very high level of O&D traffic for a city of its size, in large part due to the tourism market but also because Alaskans tend to be more reliant on air transportation than people in other places.
In Kansas or Georgia or Idaho, when it's time to go to Aunt Bertha's for Thanksgiving or Grandma's for Christmas, you load the kids up in the station wagon (today I would guess that would be a minivan) and drive to Peoria or Winston-Salem or Spokane.
If you live in Alaska, and especially if you are one of the relatively large number of Alaskans whose families live out of state, the normal thing to do is hop on a plane and fly--because it's a lot harder to drive from Anchorage to Spokane than it is to drive from Boise to Spokane. (Growing up in Alaska, it was very, very normal for most people in my school to fly out of town for holidays or in the summer. I don't get the impression that is true for most of my cousins' fellow students at their schools, where "family road trip" was much more of a thing than it was in Alaska.)
Anyway, I finally got around to looking and stumbled across this analysis:
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo.../6003348/1/#35
The interesting thing is that he's taken the airport O&D stats and compared them to metro area population.
It seems most "normal" non-destination markets hover around the 500-700 passengers per 1,000 residents mark. Moderate tourism and major business destination markets (NYC, DC, Chicago, etc.), creep up to the ~800-900 passengers per 1,000 residents mark. Big tourist destinations like Orlando, Vegas push upwards of 2-3,000 passengers per 1,000 residents mark.
And then there's Anchorage.
He doesn't include ANC in his post because (as he says upthread) the DOT doesn't include AK and HI in the normal tables. But looking at ANC's O&D data from here and comparing it to the metropolitan population of Anchorage here (and using 2012 for both, to compare apples to apples), I'm coming up with a very interesting figure:
ANC: O&D: 2,173,337 | Metro population: 392,535 | Passengers per 1,000 residents: 5,537
That's almost twice the ratio of passengers to residents for the next-largest city in knope2000's post on A.net (LAS, with 2,858).
Granted, a large portion of the Anchorage market's O&D base is made up of tourists, but I think more than a small portion of these figures is made up by the fact that Alaskans are very mobile, and flying a couple of times or more a year is not uncommon. (As of a few years ago, the stats for the annual tourism market pegged the number at somewhere around 1.5 million, IIRC, and many of those arrived by cruise ship. So even pulling the tourism market out completely still leaves the number of O&D travelers at ANC at a massive figure.)
Perhaps a more accurate comparison would be Fairbanks which, while still a tourist destination, is not as commonly an end-point on most out-of-state travelers' itineraries:
FAI: O&D: 429,549 | Metro population: 100,272 | Passengers per 1,000 residents: 4,283
I would guess that a much larger proportion of those passengers is made up of locals traveling (or those coming to Fairbanks for business). That's a pretty staggering figure.
Same goes for other Alaskan destinations off of the main tourist beaten path (2013 figures):
BRW: O&D: 48,538 | Metro population: 4,373 | Passengers per 1,000 residents: 11,099
OME: O&D: 53,734 | Metro population: 3,797 | Passengers per 1,000 residents: 14,151
OTZ: O&D: 56,488 | Metro population: 3,272 | Passengers per 1,000 residents: 17,264
HPB: O&D: 4,229 | Metro population: 1,169 | Passengers per 1,000 residents: 3,617
BTI: O&D: 1,761 | Metro population: 247 | Passengers per 1,000 residents: 7,129
It would be interesting to compare the statistics for Hawaii, though--with a huge tourist market and a low population on most of the islands, they probably make Alaskan statistics look like Wichita does.
I've long suspected that Anchorage had a very high level of O&D traffic for a city of its size, in large part due to the tourism market but also because Alaskans tend to be more reliant on air transportation than people in other places.
In Kansas or Georgia or Idaho, when it's time to go to Aunt Bertha's for Thanksgiving or Grandma's for Christmas, you load the kids up in the station wagon (today I would guess that would be a minivan) and drive to Peoria or Winston-Salem or Spokane.
If you live in Alaska, and especially if you are one of the relatively large number of Alaskans whose families live out of state, the normal thing to do is hop on a plane and fly--because it's a lot harder to drive from Anchorage to Spokane than it is to drive from Boise to Spokane. (Growing up in Alaska, it was very, very normal for most people in my school to fly out of town for holidays or in the summer. I don't get the impression that is true for most of my cousins' fellow students at their schools, where "family road trip" was much more of a thing than it was in Alaska.)
Anyway, I finally got around to looking and stumbled across this analysis:
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo.../6003348/1/#35
The interesting thing is that he's taken the airport O&D stats and compared them to metro area population.
It seems most "normal" non-destination markets hover around the 500-700 passengers per 1,000 residents mark. Moderate tourism and major business destination markets (NYC, DC, Chicago, etc.), creep up to the ~800-900 passengers per 1,000 residents mark. Big tourist destinations like Orlando, Vegas push upwards of 2-3,000 passengers per 1,000 residents mark.
And then there's Anchorage.
He doesn't include ANC in his post because (as he says upthread) the DOT doesn't include AK and HI in the normal tables. But looking at ANC's O&D data from here and comparing it to the metropolitan population of Anchorage here (and using 2012 for both, to compare apples to apples), I'm coming up with a very interesting figure:
ANC: O&D: 2,173,337 | Metro population: 392,535 | Passengers per 1,000 residents: 5,537
That's almost twice the ratio of passengers to residents for the next-largest city in knope2000's post on A.net (LAS, with 2,858).
Granted, a large portion of the Anchorage market's O&D base is made up of tourists, but I think more than a small portion of these figures is made up by the fact that Alaskans are very mobile, and flying a couple of times or more a year is not uncommon. (As of a few years ago, the stats for the annual tourism market pegged the number at somewhere around 1.5 million, IIRC, and many of those arrived by cruise ship. So even pulling the tourism market out completely still leaves the number of O&D travelers at ANC at a massive figure.)
Perhaps a more accurate comparison would be Fairbanks which, while still a tourist destination, is not as commonly an end-point on most out-of-state travelers' itineraries:
FAI: O&D: 429,549 | Metro population: 100,272 | Passengers per 1,000 residents: 4,283
I would guess that a much larger proportion of those passengers is made up of locals traveling (or those coming to Fairbanks for business). That's a pretty staggering figure.
Same goes for other Alaskan destinations off of the main tourist beaten path (2013 figures):
BRW: O&D: 48,538 | Metro population: 4,373 | Passengers per 1,000 residents: 11,099
OME: O&D: 53,734 | Metro population: 3,797 | Passengers per 1,000 residents: 14,151
OTZ: O&D: 56,488 | Metro population: 3,272 | Passengers per 1,000 residents: 17,264
HPB: O&D: 4,229 | Metro population: 1,169 | Passengers per 1,000 residents: 3,617
BTI: O&D: 1,761 | Metro population: 247 | Passengers per 1,000 residents: 7,129
It would be interesting to compare the statistics for Hawaii, though--with a huge tourist market and a low population on most of the islands, they probably make Alaskan statistics look like Wichita does.
Last edited by jackal; Feb 24, 2016 at 6:18 pm
Feb 3, 2016, 4:07 pm
#5522
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: ANC
Programs: Alaska 100k
Posts: 1,012
[ . . . ]
And then there's Anchorage.
He doesn't include ANC in his post because (as he says upthread) the DOT doesn't include AK and HI in the normal tables. But looking at ANC's O&D data from here and comparing it to the metropolitan population of Anchorage here (and using 2012 for both, to compare apples to apples), I'm coming up with a very interesting figure:
ANC: O&D: 2,173,337 | Metro population: 392,535 | Passengers per 1,000 residents: 5,537
That's almost twice the ratio of passengers to residents for the next-largest city in knope2000's post on A.net (LAS, with 2,858).
Granted, a large portion of the Anchorage market's O&D base is made up of tourists, but I think more than a small portion of these figures is made up by the fact that Alaskans are very mobile, and flying a couple of times or more a year is not uncommon.
Perhaps a more accurate comparison would be Fairbanks which, while still a tourist destination, is not as commonly an end-point on most out-of-state travelers' itineraries:
FAI: O&D: 429,549 | Metro population: 100,272 | Passengers per 1,000 residents: 4,283
I would guess that a much larger proportion of those passengers is made up of locals traveling (or those coming to Fairbanks for business). That's a pretty staggering figure.
Same goes for other Alaskan destinations off of the main tourist beaten path (2013 figures):
BRW: O&D: 48,538 | Metro population: 4,373 | Passengers per 1,000 residents: 11,099
OME: O&D: 53,734 | Metro population: 3,797 | Passengers per 1,000 residents: 14,151
OTZ: O&D: 56,488 | Metro population: 3,272 | Passengers per 1,000 residents: 17,264
HPB: O&D: 4,229 | Metro population: 1,169 | Passengers per 1,000 residents: 3,617
BTI: O&D: 1,761 | Metro population: 247 | Passengers per 1,000 residents: 7,129
[ . . . ]
And then there's Anchorage.
He doesn't include ANC in his post because (as he says upthread) the DOT doesn't include AK and HI in the normal tables. But looking at ANC's O&D data from here and comparing it to the metropolitan population of Anchorage here (and using 2012 for both, to compare apples to apples), I'm coming up with a very interesting figure:
ANC: O&D: 2,173,337 | Metro population: 392,535 | Passengers per 1,000 residents: 5,537
That's almost twice the ratio of passengers to residents for the next-largest city in knope2000's post on A.net (LAS, with 2,858).
Granted, a large portion of the Anchorage market's O&D base is made up of tourists, but I think more than a small portion of these figures is made up by the fact that Alaskans are very mobile, and flying a couple of times or more a year is not uncommon.
Perhaps a more accurate comparison would be Fairbanks which, while still a tourist destination, is not as commonly an end-point on most out-of-state travelers' itineraries:
FAI: O&D: 429,549 | Metro population: 100,272 | Passengers per 1,000 residents: 4,283
I would guess that a much larger proportion of those passengers is made up of locals traveling (or those coming to Fairbanks for business). That's a pretty staggering figure.
Same goes for other Alaskan destinations off of the main tourist beaten path (2013 figures):
BRW: O&D: 48,538 | Metro population: 4,373 | Passengers per 1,000 residents: 11,099
OME: O&D: 53,734 | Metro population: 3,797 | Passengers per 1,000 residents: 14,151
OTZ: O&D: 56,488 | Metro population: 3,272 | Passengers per 1,000 residents: 17,264
HPB: O&D: 4,229 | Metro population: 1,169 | Passengers per 1,000 residents: 3,617
BTI: O&D: 1,761 | Metro population: 247 | Passengers per 1,000 residents: 7,129
[ . . . ]
Feb 6, 2016, 11:40 am
#5523
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend, Moderator, Information Desk, Ambassador, Alaska Airlines
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: FAI
Programs: AS MVP Gold100K, AS 1MM, Maika`i Card, AGR, HH Gold, Hertz PC, Marriott Titanium LTG, CO, 7H, BA, 8E
Posts: 42,953
Wirelessly posted (beckoa's BB: Mozilla/5.0 (BB10; Kbd) AppleWebKit/537.35+ (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/10.3.2.858 Mobile Safari/537.35+)
Apparently due to military exercises we're making a detour to the north to get to LIH today from SAN, turning at Catalina Island.
Apparently due to military exercises we're making a detour to the north to get to LIH today from SAN, turning at Catalina Island.
Feb 15, 2016, 3:49 am
#5524
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend, Moderator, Information Desk, Ambassador, Alaska Airlines
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: FAI
Programs: AS MVP Gold100K, AS 1MM, Maika`i Card, AGR, HH Gold, Hertz PC, Marriott Titanium LTG, CO, 7H, BA, 8E
Posts: 42,953
Wirelessly posted (beckoa's BB: Mozilla/5.0 (BB10; Kbd) AppleWebKit/537.35+ (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/10.3.2.858 Mobile Safari/537.35+)
Just had another light shaker a few minutes ago...
Just had another light shaker a few minutes ago...
Feb 15, 2016, 10:40 am
#5525
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: SGF
Programs: AS, AA, UA, AGR S (former 75K, GLD, 1K, and S+, now an elite peon)
Posts: 23,194
ETA: I just got an email now with a "revised" magnitude of 4.2 centered on the Kenai 22 miles south of Anchorage. (I must have missed the original email.)
Last edited by jackal; Feb 15, 2016 at 11:36 am
Feb 18, 2016, 12:49 pm
#5527
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: SNA/LGB/LAX
Posts: 6
Yesterday (2/17), AS 895 (typically SAN-HNL) actually flew SAN-SJC-HNL, apparently for a fuel stop in SJC (!) because of the strong headwind.
I flew HNL-LAX on HA yesterday, and the moving map showed our ground speed as 670 mph at one point!
I flew HNL-LAX on HA yesterday, and the moving map showed our ground speed as 670 mph at one point!
Feb 24, 2016, 5:07 pm
#5530
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: HIO
Programs: AS MVPG 75K (Pure AS)
Posts: 194
PDX-DCA ... Via PIT
Just sitting onboard, parked in the GA area of PIT, thanks to the storms in DC. Circled quite a while, then had to divert (as at least 2-3 others did, too, apparently). Looks like at least another 20-30 mins before we take off again, as IAD and DCA both on ground stop.
FAs doing a pretty good job handling things, although they seem a little flummoxed. So far, the information has been regularly coming and the mood is holding.
Had to miss a pretty great omakase dinner, though... 😕 Darn weather.
FAs doing a pretty good job handling things, although they seem a little flummoxed. So far, the information has been regularly coming and the mood is holding.
Had to miss a pretty great omakase dinner, though... 😕 Darn weather.
Feb 24, 2016, 5:57 pm
#5531
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: SGF
Programs: AS, AA, UA, AGR S (former 75K, GLD, 1K, and S+, now an elite peon)
Posts: 23,194
Just sitting onboard, parked in the GA area of PIT, thanks to the storms in DC. Circled quite a while, then had to divert (as at least 2-3 others did, too, apparently). Looks like at least another 20-30 mins before we take off again, as IAD and DCA both on ground stop.
FAs doing a pretty good job handling things, although they seem a little flummoxed. So far, the information has been regularly coming and the mood is holding.
Had to miss a pretty great omakase dinner, though... �� Darn weather.
FAs doing a pretty good job handling things, although they seem a little flummoxed. So far, the information has been regularly coming and the mood is holding.
Had to miss a pretty great omakase dinner, though... �� Darn weather.
ETA: Looks like you guys took off about 10 minutes ago.
Feb 24, 2016, 8:43 pm
#5532
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Mountain Time Zone
Programs: AS Million Miler/Marriott Lifetime Titanium/ IGH Ambassador
Posts: 5,987
Feb 24, 2016, 8:43 pm
#5533
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: HIO
Programs: AS MVPG 75K (Pure AS)
Posts: 194
Nice approach to PIT - right over downtown, sort of a tour of the area. The rivers and bridges remind me of PDX a bit from the air....
Feb 24, 2016, 10:52 pm
#5534
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: SGF
Programs: AS, AA, UA, AGR S (former 75K, GLD, 1K, and S+, now an elite peon)
Posts: 23,194
Yep - ended up spending roughly an hour on the ground in PIT (although never deplaned). Ended up being an 8-hour trip PDX-DCA, but boy, the terminal was crowded with unhappy people when we landed. DCA was not a fun place to fly in or out of tonight...
Nice approach to PIT - right over downtown, sort of a tour of the area. The rivers and bridges remind me of PDX a bit from the air....
Nice approach to PIT - right over downtown, sort of a tour of the area. The rivers and bridges remind me of PDX a bit from the air....
Feb 25, 2016, 12:16 am
#5535
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend, Moderator, Information Desk, Ambassador, Alaska Airlines
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: FAI
Programs: AS MVP Gold100K, AS 1MM, Maika`i Card, AGR, HH Gold, Hertz PC, Marriott Titanium LTG, CO, 7H, BA, 8E
Posts: 42,953
Wirelessly posted (beckoa's BB: Mozilla/5.0 (BB10; Kbd) AppleWebKit/537.35+ (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/10.3.2.858 Mobile Safari/537.35+)
No just had me wide awake for a bit longer that night.
No just had me wide awake for a bit longer that night.