philemer

? for the experts: 3 of us are flying BOI-SEA in mid-August, on way to KOA, but we are on a 739. The flt is still wide open. Will the fact that we are on a 739, and not a Q400, increase the odds of AS NOT canceling our flt? Thx

jsguyrus

If you are on a 739 it is operated by AS, not QX. Cancellations at QX don't affect AS, you should be fine...but I would double check the reservation anyway.

WebTraveler

I think this is pretty ridiculous and pathetic. Alaska has been adding and adding flights all year - and even more so since acquiring Virgin America. To say this problem was not foreseeable is ridiculous.

Alaska created this mess all on it's own.

WebTraveler

Don't the Palm Springs flights historically fall off in summer when its hotter than heck anyway?

Kieron

PSC is Pasco/Tri-Cities, WA.

Possibly also a resizing? I recall the SEA-PSC frequency jumped up after DL started flying it too, and perhaps now they're convinced the market is stable enough to return to earlier levels of service.

ucdtim17

Inauspicious start for regularly-scheduled QX E175 PDX-OAK service tomorrow. SkyWest is covering four of the first five runs from PDX.

flytoeat

Apparently a bad calculus on the part of AAG: underpaying/pinching the labor agreement for the QX pilots is going to cost a lot more than intended. Personally, I want a well-compensated professional at the controls. Duh.

jackal

Won't simple market forces dictate higher starting pay for pilots at regionals? When the pay gets high enough, I would think it would stimulate some additional supply as prospective pilots decide that incurring $50K or whatever of debt for flight training training is worth doing, because the rewards are worth it. Either they do that or they start to follow the foreign model where they take newhires with little or no aviation experience and pay them to go through flight school. I mean, that model works for doctors and the insane costs of medical school...

Either way, yes, there will be increased costs for the regionals, so the mainline carriers will have to increase their contract pay to the regionals, which means fares will increase...

rustykettel

Are you sure about that? Because I've seen where OO/QX/AS have been subbed in for one of the others and it wouldn't be that hard to go the other way- cancel one and move that craft/crew over to another more needed flight slot.

sltlyamusd

I don't think it's penny pinching so much as that QX basically has not undergone serious growth in many years. Yes, starting RJ pilots are very underpaid, but that is industry-wide. As regionals go, Horizon doesn't pay badly. If Horizon hadn't been retraining a bunch of q400 pilots to fly new E175 routes, this wouldn't be nearly as bad. The issue seems to be hiring and training not keeping up with retirements during a period of sustained growth. For years, Qx has been basically the same size (52 q400s) and they even shrunk somewhat after retiring the CRJ-700 flying 7-8 years ago. Remember there were about 20 CRJs in the fleet at one point after most q400s were already delivered, so juggling two fleet types is not a novel thing at QX.

in some ways, I really question all the combined AS and DL growth out of Seattle, as the airport is now very congested and Atc delays are common, whereas five years ago they were almost unheard of. I understand the need to compete with DL, but the last thing the airport needs is more 76 seat aircraft clogging up gates and airspace. Growth brings in new customers but bad reliability kills loyalty, and AS can't afford that when the competition is as well run as DL.

sltlyamusd

i see AS filling in for QX and OO. Also OO filling in QX. Most of the time, the equipment or crew shortage is with the regionals and not mainline. Also, if QX is short-handed, it's more efficient to fold two q400 shutttle flights into one 737.

golfingboy

I agree - I think they have created a double edged sword problem for regionals like QX from both ends of the spectrum.

Hiring new pilots, or enticing those to pursue a flying career, has been a challenge considering the starting pay is barely living wage with inconsistent pay (summer more flying, winter less flying).

Then on the other end of the spectrum regionals and mainline partners have established "fasttrack" programs where after several years regional pilots become eligible to interview/transfer into mainline. While in idea this is great however we are in this era where many seasoned mainline pilots are retiring.

This creates a perfect job turnover storm - challenges on both the hiring and retention fronts.

To really address this issue I think mainline partners and regional partners need to start looking at this from one "pool" rather than regional pool and mainline pool and collectively come up with strategies to address this challenge. This is also partially the shareholders/wall street's fault (short term mentality focused on increasing profits and tying 80-90% of exec comp to financial performance) and this problem isn't limited to airlines. In banking there is a serious talent shortage problem.

Trying not to delve into OMNI/PR but I think the medical industry has the opposite problem -- they took advantage of our desire to be healthy, or survive, and profiteered off of that. This is a society problem in the US that needs to change. A simple operation should not cost $250K where a week of sitting in a hospital bed under monitoring costs $40K -- North Island or a Soneva villa in the Maldives charges a fraction of that for two people!

ucdtim17

They also decided to use the E175s almost entirely for expansion (or replacing OO E175 or AS 737 on SEA-ONT/SFO/OAK/FAT/SBA etc), when they obviously didn't have the pilots for it, rather than replacing longer Q400 routes. A little less expansion and a little more replacing Q400 flying would have lessened the problem.

jsguyrus

Starting pilot pay at QX is $36,000 per year plus $20,000 hiring bonus, so $56,000. Year two which has no bonus is $41,400, year three is $42,300. QX does not offer flow through hiring to AS. So for a four year degree and all its associated costs PLUS about $60,000 additional in flight training paid to the university they make $42,000. Kind of hard to live in Seattle or Portland on that kind of wage while repaying the college debt.

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/a...al/horizon_air

golfingboy

Agree with you - one detail about flow through hiring with AS.. On the QX career site it states:

"Our pay just got better
Now with a new top tier compensation package, new airframe in the fleet, a guaranteed interview program with Alaska Airlines, and more, the time for career takeoff is now."

Not sure how many years before they become eligible to interview for AS but I can't imagine it is that long (several years?).

Programs like this one really benefits mainline and exacerbates the hiring/retention problem for regionals.