Does Alaska Overbook Flights?

Old Apr 11, 2017, 12:45 pm
  #31  
 
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This doesn't apply to mechanical delays, does it?
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Old Apr 11, 2017, 12:45 pm
  #32  
 
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Several years ago I was IDB on AS. I had flown ANC-SEA to catch a QX flight to BIL. At the gate in SEA I was told that they had given my seat away since I "never left ANC" according to their computer. Incredible since I was standing at the gate in SEA. They re-booked me SEA-MSP-BIL with MSP-BIL on DL and gave me a $300 voucher. And, I got upgraded on the DL flight, WOOHOO!!

So, Yes, AS has been overbooking flights for many years now.
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Old Apr 11, 2017, 12:53 pm
  #33  
 
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Originally Posted by 1st Cav Vet
Many, many years ago, AS was asking for Volunteers on an oversold flight. My wife and I were among the Volunteers. Common at the time were System-Wide round trip vouchers.
There were no shortage of happy Volunteers. I remain very pleased with Alaska Airlines. Some of the other airlines have unfathomable arrogance towards their customers. How sad!
Do any airlines offer free RT vouchers for IDB anymore? Last one I got was about 2002 and it was a choice between a ticket voucher or travel bucks. I wasn't really flying much then and flying Alaska even less so not sure when AS and others went to the dollar amounts.

(Stupidly I chose the ticket when my needs (and eventual use) were short haul.)

Originally Posted by BOB W
At the gate in SEA I was told that they had given my seat away since I "never left ANC" according to their computer. Incredible since I was standing at the gate in SEA.
Had the opposite of that a couple of weeks ago. Last to board and the scanner flashed and said already on board. GA said he knew what it was and no, my seat as still empty when I got on.
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Old Apr 11, 2017, 1:11 pm
  #34  
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Originally Posted by CDKing
I wonder if that is AS plan for the future. Oversell Y based on upgrading elites to F.
I had a friend who worked for VX. They were very concerned with customer experience of getting bumped and leaving that negative taste in their mouth. Until they had a method to do it with their Elite priority, I think that was the final change.

I don't think they ever oversold by the same margins as many of the legacy carriers though.
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Old Apr 11, 2017, 1:12 pm
  #35  
 
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Originally Posted by AKCuisine
So far this year I've had two AS flights that were oversold, and one flight that was thought to be oversold right up until boarding was completed.

I took a VDB on one of the flights (ANC-SEA). I was given a $400 MyWallet credit voucher and was rebooked on another flight that departed an hour later. It was the easiest $400 that I've ever "earned."

For what it's worth, there were three other passengers who accepted VDB on that same flight - but they had to be accommodated on later flights into Seattle.
Nice. When my BOI-SMF flight was cancelled a couple of years ago (while I was in the air from PDX-BOI) I was sent BOI-SEA-SMF, arriving into SMF about 12 hours later than originally scheduled and I got a $150 voucher for my troubles.
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Old Apr 11, 2017, 1:23 pm
  #36  
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Originally Posted by BOB W
Several years ago I was IDB on AS. I had flown ANC-SEA to catch a QX flight to BIL. At the gate in SEA I was told that they had given my seat away since I "never left ANC" according to their computer. Incredible since I was standing at the gate in SEA. They re-booked me SEA-MSP-BIL with MSP-BIL on DL and gave me a $300 voucher. And, I got upgraded on the DL flight, WOOHOO!!

So, Yes, AS has been overbooking flights for many years now.
Does that count as an IDB in the formal sense of the DoT regulations? Sounds like they gave your seat to a standby (who didn't have a confirmed seat until they mistakenly decided that you would not be available for the flight). Also, compensation for IDB is in cash, isn't it?
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Old Apr 11, 2017, 2:01 pm
  #37  
 
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Originally Posted by Often1
The larger issue is that once it is an IDB situation, DOT rules require that the carrier use a predetermined order. It is not up to the GA or crew to change the order "just because". The order may take into account all sorts of things, but it can't change. Thus, once the doc was the next IDB, he was the next IDB.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/250.9

Dot requires the carrier to follow its own boarding printout rules, and must provide these written rules (as well as compensation) to any idb . Each carrier has different rules

Since we are in the AS forum


https://www.alaskaair.com/content/about-us/customer-commitment/customer-commitment-overbooked-flights.aspx

[When a volunteer is not found, we will deny boarding to the last customer(s) who checked in on time
Aa
American will usually deny boarding based upon check-in time, but we may also consider factors such as severe hardships, fare paid, and status within the AAdvantage program.
Which means for alaska, always check in early (or as late as possible if you want a chance at idb)

Someone can add the policies for other carriers (united is similar to aa, but they will put disabled/unaccompanied miners as last to be denied)

Last edited by paperwastage; Apr 11, 2017 at 2:14 pm
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Old Apr 11, 2017, 2:13 pm
  #38  
 
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AS does. Last December I got voice messages about my Christmas SEA-BUR trip and was told the flight was overbooked and asked for volunteers. I didn't volunteer because I had little kids but I was curious how high they sold the new tickets... The price must be way more than $400 voucher + around $150 one way... Otherwise they won't ask for volunteers days before the departure.. They don't expect enough people won't show up. They must earn quite a lot of money from rich people...
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Old Apr 11, 2017, 2:13 pm
  #39  
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Originally Posted by paperwastage

Aa

American will usually deny boarding based upon check-in time, but we may also consider factors such as severe hardships, fare paid, and status within the AAdvantage program.
That's what they write and maybe the computer does it that way. Just last year, though, I was on an AA flight (regional jet) where they had to kick 10 people off due to weight and balance. They asked for 10 volunteers for $400 each (fat chance on a once-a-day route) and then announced that they would remove people based on the date of their ticket purchase -- most recent ticket purchase off the plane first. Made no sense to me, and I was expecting to be among the ten because I literally had bought my expensive ticket the day before and was flying without status... but apparently what they said didn't actually match with what they/the computer did, because I remained on the flight.
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Old Apr 11, 2017, 2:26 pm
  #40  
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Originally Posted by from Alaska Airlines' website
We sometimes overbook flights because people often book reservations without using them.
This makes me wonder if the incremental gain in revenue is worth the reputational risk, and related fiduciary and customer loss if a situation got out of hand.

Alaska, JetBlue and Virgin America may be better at this than the others, but from a leadership perspective in setting a different tone in the industry, I wonder if they should reconsider this policy. Think that 'sometimes' above sugar coats this a bit, no?

The other piece that is missing in Alaska's statement is if they would place crews above paying passengers. I think it was the former Northwest CEO (I read somewhere and forgot his name) that had a policy that passengers always came first or ahead of crews.

Poor planning = poor performance, and from the paying customer perspective, getting crews to their flights is all in the planning, which is not the customer's responsibility. It's the airline's.
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Old Apr 12, 2017, 2:26 pm
  #41  
 
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Yes Thank you Ryan. How about a sub topic titled "Should be working for United" to address anyone at AS whose behavior might "qualify" them for a job at United
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Old Apr 12, 2017, 4:19 pm
  #42  
 
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Originally Posted by tsillanman
Yes Thank you Ryan. How about a sub topic titled "Should be working for United" to address anyone at AS whose behavior might "qualify" them for a job at United
I did some work at UA in a previous life and have many good friends still there - in both inflight and CS on the ground. There's a lot of very dedicated folks at UA so I think it's a bit unfair to paint a broad brush.

UA does have some deep rooted issues for sure, and it's unfortunate that it takes a nasty incident and resulting media fall out before they get addressed.

But to be fair, UA has been getting a particularly bad rap and in some cases somewhat unfairly of late. The "leggings-gate" was really a non-story. Almost all airlines have some kind of dress code for pass-riding and employee travel, and the fact that these non-revs turned up not in compliance should not have seen a mass outcry and Celebrity boycotts. I have seen passriders at BA, WestJet, AC and others get turned away for non-compliant dress code. No media outcry.

Back OT, I get the need for carriers to overbook. I don't have a problem in theory with the practice - it's just all in how you manage it. If you can score $11k in Amex cards for a family of 4 not to travel - hey, that's not such a shabby deal
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Old Apr 13, 2017, 5:12 am
  #43  
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Originally Posted by SpicyMorale
This doesn't apply to mechanical delays, does it?
Not sure what delays (mechanical or otherwise) have to do with IDB's? A delayed/canceled flight does not constitute an IDB if that is what you are asking. It's only when you have meant all the requirements for checking-in and being at the gate on time with a confirmed reservation on the flight, and the flight actually departs without you due to not enough seats available. There is an out of they have to do a last minute equipment substitution for a smaller aircraft due to operational/safety issues. As well as for aircraft with less than 60 seats due to weight and balance issues.

I was on an NW DC-9 flight from DTW-JFK a number of years ago where they had to offload 4 pax for weight issues due to high heat/humidity. Since the DC-9 holds over 60 pax, it would have been an IDB situation if the could not find enough volunteers. Initially they were only asking for people without international connections to volunteer. When they couldn't get enough volunteers, they opened it up to pax with international connections as well. I was flying DTW-JFK-AMS, so I took a voucher and was able to get on a non-stop DTW-AMS flight that arrived earlier. In the end, they didn't need to IDB anyone and there was no drama involved.
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Old Apr 13, 2017, 6:32 am
  #44  
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Originally Posted by LBJ
Not sure what delays (mechanical or otherwise) have to do with IDB's? A delayed/canceled flight does not constitute an IDB if that is what you are asking. It's only when you have meant all the requirements for checking-in and being at the gate on time with a confirmed reservation on the flight, and the flight actually departs without you due to not enough seats available. There is an out of they have to do a last minute equipment substitution for a smaller aircraft due to operational/safety issues. As well as for aircraft with less than 60 seats due to weight and balance issues.

I was on an NW DC-9 flight from DTW-JFK a number of years ago where they had to offload 4 pax for weight issues due to high heat/humidity. Since the DC-9 holds over 60 pax, it would have been an IDB situation if the could not find enough volunteers. Initially they were only asking for people without international connections to volunteer. When they couldn't get enough volunteers, they opened it up to pax with international connections as well. I was flying DTW-JFK-AMS, so I took a voucher and was able to get on a non-stop DTW-AMS flight that arrived earlier. In the end, they didn't need to IDB anyone and there was no drama involved.
Actually that falls under the list of exemptions of weight/balance restrictions required by operational and safety reasons.That flight was not oversold which is the basis of IDB.

I've been trying to figure out why airlines that don't overbook have such high IDB ratios compared to the other carriers. For instance AS is only .35 per 10,000 when Jetblue is 1.19 and WN is .80
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Old Apr 13, 2017, 6:36 am
  #45  
 
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Originally Posted by CDKing
Actually that falls under the list of exemptions of weight/balance restrictions required by operational and safety reasons.That flight was not oversold which is the basis of IDB.

I've been trying to figure out why airlines that don't overbook have such high IDB ratios compared to the other carriers.
If you overbook as part of the core revenue process, you probably have also refined the VDB process to minimize IDB (and cash outlay) - otherwise you erode the financial benefits of overbooking. I'd bet the carriers that don't overbook at all, or not as aggressively, aren't as good at getting volunteers to take vouchers instead of cash. They might swap equipment or something and start canceling tickets.

Just my speculation. I can't base this on any actual knowledge.
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