SamuelS

I realise there are a lot of pretty die-hard Alaska loyalists on this forum. From my part, over the last 15 years I guess you could say I've been somewhat of a Northwest (subsequently Delta) loyalist, more recently splitting that to include Alaska over the last 5 years.

I've had the occasional gripe with AS or DL once in a while - who doesn't - but on the whole try and keep a balanced perspective. I worked in the airline biz for many years and am still not too far removed in my current field of work. Lately though, I've had more than just the occasional AS gripe. A phone call today was a bit unusual and I guess got me to thinking (probably not wise).


First off, I'll preface by saying AS overall has pretty outstanding flight crews - both front and back end. DL is not far behind, but AS should take a lot of pride in their crew.

My experience with AS telephone reservations on the other hand has been pretty awful, and without making this post anymore of an unwieldy tome than it already is, suffice it to say that there really is no excuse for the misinformation, disinterest, lack of training and overall poor experiences that have become the norm recently.

The hard product on AS - particularly in F - is also pretty uninspired compared to the competition. Sure there's some nods to local food producers, breweries and wineries - and I appreciate that. But how about a pillow, or a blanket, or a PDB, or not charging (even premium cabin passengers) for IFE content.

Don't get me started on my BoardRoom membership. And I still haven't forgotten the time I got home 5 hours later than was necessary because a QX GA in SEA didn't want to let me SDS/SDC at the gate.

Added in to all that, lately my posting of non-AS flights to MileagePlan has been pretty dismal. Sending e-ticket receipts or BP's to MP email address frequently results in an auto-acknowledgement but no action and one has to invest a lot of time and effort just to ensure you get the correct credit. In one trip from October last year, I've contacted AS three times going back to November and they still haven't credited me correctly.


In regard to this last issue, I contacted MVP Customer Care recently. The representative was courteous, but couldn't correct the mileage issue and instead went through several troubleshooting steps on why they weren't receiving my e-ticket from Delta. As she did this, we chatted pleasantly enough about the challenges of miles posting / how long it took to get things turned around, and the agent was quite frank with me about some issues at AS with the merger and expansion. She mentioned that they were more backed up in MileagePlan than she'd ever seen - and were hiring temps to alleviate the problem, and that there were known issues with reservations call centres due to new staff/lack of training & experience/turnover.

I was caught off guard a little when she then checked my MP history and noted how I'd dropped from MVPG to MVP, that I'd been status matched to MVPG 5 years ago (from DL), along with my breakdown of AS miles vs Partner Miles for each of the last 5 years. She noted I only flew 15-30,000 miles on AS metal a year (true - I've always credited both AS and DL to the program to reach the 50k threshold) and that I've been using AS MP largely as "a savings bank".


I was a bit surprised at both the scope of information, and moreover her apparent interpretation that someone whom credits partner flights is perhaps "gaming" the system and not really that loyal a customer to AS. Putting aside the business proposition to airlines from loyalty programs and miles, the reality is that the competitiveness of MP - and it's broad scope of partners - was certainly a defining factor in status matching over to AS versus accruing SkyPesos, and AS definitely picked up some flying from me in the process. If AS would have made any kind of effort to be remotely competitive for premium cabin fares transborder, I probably would have moved over most of my flying.

For me - with the DL partnership ending, I could probably still keep enough AS flying to maintain lowly MVP status at AS, while maintaining Gold each year at Delta. Not exactly a road warrior, but the majority of my travel is on premium fares. This year will be interesting as the merger runs it's course. I appreciate miles as much as the next person, but the quality of product & service, reliability, consistency and ease of doing business with still have to win out.

beckoa

Interesting data that they keep on us for sure. And its interesting how frank the agent was with you, as concerning as some of these revelations have been. It confirms a few of my suspicions in regard to staffing, for both customer care and the AS call centers.

I wonder how many resources have been reallocated to the VX acquisition and how much this is bogging down the 'behind the scenes' ops?

dave1013

I think the agent was highly presumptuous (as well as a bit impolite) in making this observation.

But even if she was right and you have been using MP as a savings bank - if that's not the sort of thing that AS management wants, they need to change the program right now. Otherwise, "silence is consensus".

The agent is certainly entitled to her opinion - and - she would more properly make it known to her management chain (and/or her shop steward, if she has one) than with a loyal customer. Once she did that, she crossed the line as far as I am concerned. If it had been me on the other end of the line when she made that statement, I'd be initiating an email to AS as soon as the conversation was over.

ryandc99

I would love to see what she would have to say about my MP account... I have a similar pattern as the OP, with about 15k of Alaska flying in 2016 and 75k of partner flying, but all premium fares on DL, AA and Icelandair.

keitherson

Of course they keep tabs on their own frequent fliers. Who do you think is more valuable to the airline, the 75Ks that actually fly Alaska to get it, or the ones that just use Alaska as a "savings bank"?

keitherson

They are looking at changing the program. However, these things take time to properly formulate and the merger is already taking a lot of resources.

This was similar to what happened during the US/AA merger.

From the rumor mill, I've heard that they are trying to change it so that only MVP elites are allowed certain award redemptions, but they are also trying to not penalize the program too hard because they make a significant amount of revenue from simply just selling miles.

Eastbay1K

It all depends. A 75K on the lowest fares, when AS might have had to provide 75K of first class travel, might not earn as much revenue as someone like myself where AS received revenue for paid premium travel from AA, LA and DL without having to provide an iota of either ground or inflight service. Add that to some paid AS travel, and I'm sure they're doing quite alright on "us."

keitherson

AS does not receive revenue from premium travel on other airlines unless you are connecting with AS metal. Crediting flights to MP for miles from foreign carriers does not give AS any money.

Eastbay1K

They are receiving buckets of dough from the miles that the other carriers buy. (I know they aren't revenue sharing on the tickets themselves.)

keitherson

This is not the case. It is the frequent flyer program that pays for the miles, not the operating carrier, with the idea that miles earned from foreign carriers used to redeem on the foreign carrier, so that it becomes close to cost-neutral.

e.g. a BA loyalist accruing to AS would would eventually redeem their AS miles on BA again, so BA pays AS back for the miles used.

That is why many programs have metal requirements: why programs like BA requires you to fly minimum 2 segments on their own planes to qualify for elite status.

If frequent flyer programs got money from charging other airlines, then they would just give 500% bonuses to all flights and charge the other carrier through their teeth. Like right now, AS is giving BA flights 350% miles earned on D fares.

https://www.alaskaair.com/content/mi...h-airways.aspx

Do you think BA is paying for all those extra miles? Why doesn't Alaska start giving out 500% miles and make BA pay for that?

This is what actually happens:

http://viewfromthewing.boardingarea....where-they-go/

Alaska pays Icelandair for every redemption, and if people aren't flying Alaska for those Icelandair miles (and instead purchasing them), then Alaska isn't happy.

This deal was shut down eventually and Icelandair was kicked out of Mileage Plan, if you don't remember.

PVDtoDEL

This is incorrect. The operating carrier purchases the miles from the frequent flyer program, similar to how credit card companies purchase miles from FFPs for credit card spend. Accrual rates are typically set jointly by the operating carrier and the frequent flyer program, with the main variable being how much the operating carrier is willing to spend for a given class of ticket.

dave1013

This is all well and good - and - I assert there is no room in the realm of good customer service for flippant comments like the agent is reported to have made to OP. My 2 cents, YMMV, etc.

I view this situation as similar to what I think happened with unfettered BR access, i.e., some BR members were using the facility as a "bodega", "saloon", and/or their personal daily breakfast spot. AS eventually put the kibosh on that and I do not recall anyone posting that they were given the stink eye or read the riot act by the BR front desk agents during check-in. I would wager there was consternation on the part of some of the agents but if they had anything to say about it, they kept it within their chain of command. Again, my two cents.

sfozrhfco

The main variable is actually how lopsided the partnership is and the economic impact of that. Remember that points are both earned and redeemed. EK may be ok with buying 5X as many AS points as AS buys EK points and just consider it a marketing expense. On the other hand if AS is paying more money out to EK as they were last year, then they raise redemption rates to cut back on the number of awards booked on EK. When the number of points exchanged both ways evens out, neither carrier pays the other one. It is only when the total number of points earned and redeemed on one side of the equation is out of balance that payments come into play.

When UA was going pear shaped, everybody was redeeming on partners which was costing UA a lot of money. They upped the price of awards on partners to encourage people to book on UA to try to stem the points imbalances to avoid paying out large sums to partners.

xliioper

Not sure I buy that selling miles to other carriers is all that great of a profit-center. I'm willing to bet that a lot of the profit in mileage programs is due to breakage -- miles that are never redeemed. But if those that use AS as a piggy-bank are far more likely to use AS miles than the average flyer, there is probably little or no profit from those flyers. It's possible AS might make some changes to discourage this. Or they could just regard those flyers as "noise" and not really worth doing anything about. With the DL partnership going away, I suspect the number of such flyers will be reduced naturally.

SamuelS

In my case, I actually ended up switching at least some flying over to AS when I made MP my primary FF account. I'm guessing this is the same for many of us that ditched SkyPesos to consolidate under MP.

I also purchased a BR membership for last four years, and acquired an AS credit card. So AS definitely picked up some incremental revenue from me - and I guess many others - through maintaining a more competitive FF program.

I guess my point is that I would have moved over a lot more of my flying to AS if both the product and value proposition was compelling. AS may not be the best option from Western Canada to every US destination I fly to - but certainly almost all of my west coast flying - some 40k a year - could have moved over to AS. But when AS economy fares are oftentimes similar (or even higher) than DL First Class fares - and when DL is offering flat beds on a bunch of flights from SEA-JFK versus AS lack lustre F product - the only major incentive beyond collecting miles to stick with AS was for the Gold change fee waivers.

For now, I've dropped to MVP and will have to decide this year whether maintaining that status with enough AS metal flying ends up being worth it.