milypan

I suspect you seriously overestimate the capacity that AS will have at SFO. The combined airline will have only 10 gates total. UA, in comparison, has 34 domestic gates alone at SFO, and AS/VX has 32 gates in SEA. They are not going to be turning SFO into their main hub, or even into a very large hub.

milypan

I hope (IAH). It's tough to compete on a route that's hub-to-hub for a competitor.

eponymous_coward

Sure, but it didn't stop VX from starting EWR-SFO. If AS is quite serious about expanding SFO/LAX, they'll need to fill in the gaps (IAH, ATL, PHX, DTW are some big ones).

sfozrhfco

That was a completely different situation. VX got access to EWR slots in what was a slot controlled airport at the time. They didn't have to worry about competition--they just skimmed off the people that hated UA. Filling three flights a day from SFO to EWR when the only other option was UA was not difficult. UA was weak at that time. The dynamic has changed at EWR with slots lifted and competition in the NYC to California market has also increased substantially. I doubt VX is making much on their JFK/EWR flights these days.

AS/VX are not going to grow LAX/SFO all that much in the near term. They don't have the gate capacity to do so. Competitors are already serving all those cities and they are not low hanging fruit.

ptownca

Yes, the cultures and demographics could not be more different totally agreed there.

Alaska customers being disappointed in the VX product? Huh ?

Now, I completely understand the AS elites being grumpy about unequal treatment vis a vis VX elites, but this is a buyout not a merger of equals, so its on AS management to fix. I get also that AS is the hometown favorite in the PNW. I know, I live there now.

That said, in the past few years, I've flown every major carrier in NA and VX has been head and shoulders above every other on a day to day basis. I've flown enough on DL to maintain AF Gold for 5 years now. Now that I am in SEA, I also am flying more and more on AA as an AS elite. I get it. I see the differences in treatment.

I've made some other posts in the AS forum about what the VX experience has been. VX has consistently been the best for me and for comparison, I've done now some 40 flights on AS both short haul and transcons. So, it's not like I do not know the AS elite experience.

Now, the situation in T-2 is curious agreed, but it is a space issue in SFO and getting a lounge there has long been on the wish list for VX, but simply no space available. T-2 itself is in my experience the best terminal of any large airport in NA. Easy access from the garage. Rarely long lines at TSA. Great restaurants and shops, so I even though I have an Admirals Club membership, I used it on maybe 25% of my trips. Remember also. unlike SEA, VX is not the largest tenant at SFO.

This is not a merger, but a buyout. AS owns VX, so failures there are on AS management. The trick and the challenge for this to succeed really is for AS to maintain loyalty to the VX base of flyers who have fled UA and are willing to pay for a truly premium product in F. F on VX has never been a freebie. Not even VX executives are allowed to fly in F. It is solely for paying customers.

AS elites, who see VX as an inferior product, especially in F, are suffering what we call cognitive dissonance.

ptownca

Actually, AA uses both T-2 and T-1 and the share in T-2 is about 80% VX and the rest AA.

eponymous_coward

You mean like how competitors are serving SFO-SNA and SFO-MSP? Didn't seem to stop AS from starting some routes.

ptownca

True, but the connection times in SFO T-2 are maybe max 8 minutes if you are a slow walker. T-2 is a wonderfully designed terminal and switching gates is painless.

Now that SEA is my home airport, I am constantly reminded of the brain dead layout, especially with the security lanes. So, knowing the difference, if I land in D-8 and need to get to A11 or one of the satellites, how long will it take ? I'll take my chances in SFO anytime.

eponymous_coward

Last I checked, every gate at SEA can be gotten to from any other gate airside. Try connecting T2 to A gates International at SFO sometime and then tell me how wonderful SFO is laid out.

dayone

dayone

Nope, DFW Terminal D is the best.

Even more of all of the above, plus Admirals Club, Centurion Lounge and Priority pass lounge, plus Grand Hyatt, plus fast airside bidirectional train to all other terminals.

sfozrhfco

Skywest is starting those and the Skywest flights out of SFO are the first to be cancelled with any weather issues. You are not going to fly Skywest from SFO to ATL or any other longer haul flight from SFO.

formeraa

Actually, SEA is one of the better airports since all the gates are connected behind security. As for the "brain dead" layout, SEA is pretty much land-locked and was a spoke airport for most of its existence. When I was a kid in the 70's, AS only flew to Alaska -- that was it. The only carriers that had anything resembling a hub were NW (fully contained in the South Satellite) and UA (fully contained in the North Satellite). So, in reality, SEA was designed appropriately with the two major carriers of the era fully contained within their own satellite terminals.

As for the current time, there would have to be a totally new terminal consturcted and I honestly don't suggest doing it without complete commitment from DL that they are going to maintain/increase service over the next 25 years.

SJC ORD LDR

I always thought that AA was going to eventually move into Boarding Area B of the North Terminal and VX (now AS) was going to get all of Boarding Area D of the Old International Terminal once Boarding Area B was renovated. Once that happens, I assume that AS will have enough gates in the old International Terminal.

eponymous_coward

I see. Before you were complaining that AS offered nothing in terms of network to VX pax because it was entirely duplicative of existing VX service, now they actually do, "but it's a regional".

Nothing really would make you happy short of AS selling VX to B6, would it?

Of course not, but AS isn't going to add all those cities at once. Like I said, they could add cities for years (and I'd predict they'll add gates too, gradually, as SFO finishes their T1 work).

AS didn't buy VX to have SFO and LAX be a perpetually poor cousin of what they offer out of SEA (or to route pax through SEA). The long term goal would be to have pretty large point to point availability out of all three cities. It will take a while to get there, but it's pretty obvious that's the goal.