ptownca

I'm not so sure. Already, there are crews from VX and AS cross training on each other's planes.

Moreover, you cannot really combine both airlines until such time that AS takes over the VX operating certificate, which does not happen overnight.

This takeover poses lots of challenges for AS and I suspect they have to be rethinking some of their business model given the price tag they paid and the VX customer base they sorely need to retain to make it worthwhile.

CDKing

VX F was such niche market. Probably part of its demise since other carrier including jet blue now offer lie flat on the transcon routes. I dont think AS has much to lose. I mean if it was so great why as VX failing year after year since its start?

beckoa

Because a foreigner ran the airline?

Too soon?

ptownca

Well VX launched an airline in the depths of the 2008 recession. Like the original VS/BA battle, Branson was in for the long haul. I'd hardly call that a failure. It is not like VX sold the company at a discount

I'd argue the overall VX experience is what generated its extremely loyal fans..

Visconti

RE: the lay-flat transcon

Without question, I prefer the F lay-fat seats on Int'l flights 8 hours or longer.

For the SFO --> NYC route (5 or 6 hours?), it isn't imperative for me to have the lay-flat seats. All things equal, would I prefer the F lay-flat transcons? Of course, especially AA's flagship one; and, maybe even UA's new Polaris class.

Most of my flights to NY are purely for business meetings, as I'd assume with most on the SFO --> JFK route. For 5 or 6 hours, the lay-flat isn't important to me. Between the pfb, light convo, a little work, there's no time to lay-flat and slumber away, unlike a trans-pacific/atlantic.

That VX was competitive offering flights to both JFK/EWR were important. That their F product was world class and priced competitively with their peers was important. That if no one paid (either with cash or VX points at 2.2 cpp), the seat next to me will be empty was important. And, that they never gave it away (none of the 25K redemption for any F flight thing) was important.

While many may think this business model is unsustainable, VX F was the only product (aside from AA's Flagship F) where I was willing to pay my hard earned money for. I fly on my own dime (not employers) for personal and business travel.

Now, if I had shareholders showering me with an unlimited budget, then none of the above matters. I'll just buy the most expensive allowable fare that allows me to book F flights for free vacations.

PV_Premier

Given the alternative between AS' traditional domestic F recliner seat, and the fact that every single competitor operating SFO-NYC nonstop has a lie flat, you're seriously going to say AS is preferable?

sure, maybe you won't recline that seat and sleep for all 5 hours every trip, but lie-flat transcon is becoming the standard on this route and AS is seeming that they want to go away from it (assuming they keep the routes at all which I guess they will but who really knows).

And don't forget that 20-30% of the seats on this route eastbound do operate as a redeye.

YMMV I guess.

Visconti

If the cost of the AS/VX F is about $300 or so less than the lay-flat transcons, yes. At a similar price level/points, then, no. My preference has been to pay for the lowest VX fare and pay for the upgrade to F at T-24. The only exception had been when B6's Mint was selling for about $600 for the SFO --> JFK route, but haven't seen that fare in quite some time.

Sure, most I know would definitely prefer to turn their seat into a bed. I get that this is part of the appeal. For me, even on 12+ hours flight, I rarely have my seat in the 180 position, but I will recline to about 90. Unlike most, I sleep very little on flights and prefer to read, watch a movie, or drink more than I should.

channa

Failure after a year? New companies often lose money for years after starting.

It took Amazon 20 years to make money.

SFOPeter

I too would be less for a regular domestic F than a lieflat for a transcon. And it would actually be a nice niche to fill on transcon markets like SFO-JFK/EWR that no longer have regular domestic F. But as discussed in other threads previously, AS regularly charges more for their F than lieflat for highly similar transcon routes to the legacies. So hopefully that will change, we'll see.

channa

Why would that change?

First it's not apples to apples, as AS does not compete head to head on exact lie flat routes.

Maybe it will change on VX routes, but not likely on AS SEA routes. If AS can command a premium because its customer base prefers flying on, and will pay more to fly on a Seattle-based airline, then they should continue to charge the premium, no?

ec6863

Most of the posts here are from mid January, since this is an ever changing relationship I figured i ask.

AS elites DO NOT GET same day standby for free correct?

PDXPremier

Yes, you are correct....AS elites almost nothing on VX flights, at least for the foreseeable future.