PDXPremier

There is nowhere I need to go (except ABR which is rare) that I can't get to on AA or AS so I'll miss DL, but it's not that big of a deal to me....I just need to finish using up all the DL VDBs and in the process of that will probably get more VDBs....I just won't be able to credit to AS

lg20

I vote this.

Competition is getting us better service, more routes, and competing lounges and other products. Total passengers between the airlines also seems to be up, especially in SEA. The downside is we lose the ability to mix and match, earning and burning on both carriers.

I think there was more to be gained by continuing to work together, but at least the competition is beneficial in other ways for passengers.

Seattlenerd

Fully agree. And airlines continuing to call these "surcharges" masks what they truly are. "Surcharges" eventually go away. These are permanent co-pays, much like for medical care. The flight awards with these cash fees are money+miles awards in practice and reality, not traditional mileage awards.

Officially, in the fine print, AS calls these "carrier-imposed charges." Both Icelandair and British Airways levy them as a matter of course, and that reduces the value of miles to Europe on AS even further once you factor in the loss of Delta and availability on Air France and KLM.

I'm very cautious in crying "devaluation!" at every change in a loyalty program. But this is a true out-of-pocket devaluation, and it's one of the very few reasons I'll miss Delta as a partner.

eponymous_coward

Historically, the majority of AS redemptions are made inside the AS network (not partners).

FlyerTalk makes us think that everyone redeems J/F longhaul, but in practice that is not the case.

Seattlenerd

Ah yes. But historically, it has been the highest and best use of frequent flier miles for those of us In The Know.

eponymous_coward

Sure, but the premise "well, since DL award J to Europe isn't available, AS is really hurt" doesn't really stand up to how most people redeem inside the AS program. FT is a tail end of a distribution.

What is more likely to hurt is losing nonstop options to Europe/Asia out of SEA/PDX in paid/award travel. DE is more seasonal than DL (and we haven't even seen the chart or availability yet). LHR/KEF/FRA is kind of lame (and PDX doesn't even get LHR).

Hurts isn't the same as crippling though, and there's no real reason for AS as a company to be nice to a company in DL who would be quite happy if they went bankrupt and could own SEA as a hub. In the end, DL management thought having market share and their own hub at SEA was more beneficial to their company than a partnership with AS with AS handling local feed for DL. That may indeed be the right decision, and that decision was certainly their right to make, but it is hard for me to blame AS for not wanting to help DL stick a dagger in their back.

Seattlenerd

Agreed. I think which moves an airline makes to change its loyalty program varies as a "devaluation" depending on one's perspective and use. To many, it may not change the program as they use it at all.

It does change my use, however. But I also realize you plays the game, you takes your chances. There are no guarantees in loyalty programs.

Nor would I ever defend DL in this case. I was increasingly unhappy with how the reciprocity devolved over time and with my experiences with DL directly. Others, of course, have other experiences.

MDtR-Chicago

True for me at least. Two RTs this month alone to obscure domestic airports, fairly high $, that would have likely gone to DL. It's not so bad flying AA...

eponymous_coward

Yeah, I'm lumping in other commentary in the thread with yours to reply to. I do agree that AS's program is less valuable with less partners; it's why I don't agree with the logic that BA awards with high copays are useless. Yeah, it's annoying to have to pay $200-700 for a one-way flight on top of miles. But BA actually has some inventory to Europe. It would be slim pickings in F/J TATL without them, given that AA has basically given up making much inventory available to partners*, and AF/KL isn't a lot better.

*I say that in spite of my last two AS premium cabin awards being AA J DUS-ORD/AS ORD-SEA, in summer 2016 no less, and AA F HKG-LAX-SEA next January, but the availability is pretty terrible.

jpdx

... as long as you (a) don't expect a domestic F upgrade as an AS elite, (b) are willing to pay cash for your ticket (because good luck with award availability), and (c) don't need to go to an international destination AA doesn't serve.

eponymous_coward

a) Like we were getting loads of them anyways on DL?

Say, how about getting Comfort+ on DL as an AS elite? How would that have been working out for me the last few years compared to Main Cabin Extra on AA as an MVPG?

b) AA J/F is "good luck, buddy" internationally on an award, which is the big reason for the gripefest in the AA forum. Y international isn't non-existent out of peak season. It's not "OMG GREAT" but it does exist. The tricky part is that AA domestic availability to international gateways sucks AND blows. AS has decent availability though... and presumably, an AS elite is likely to be in an AS served town, no?

Yeah, I know, nobody wants to fly Y across an ocean. Except for the millions of people who do every year and survive to tell the tale.

c) The international destinations that DL serves that an AS partner doesn't? I would say "SPN" except that's not international. You can totally do HKG, AMS, CDG, PVG, KEF, LHR on AS partners. And you weren't getting much in the way of elite benefits other than EQM/RDM on DL if you were flying outside the USA (no Comfort+ for yoooooouuuu), so I think comparing DL to ALL AS partners isn't unfair.

All told, yeah, this sucks. Losing DL nonstops out of SEA/PDX hurts. But the salad days of 2012 and AS and DL are behind us.

(I don't see AF/KL adding SEA anytime soon, and the OW partners AS could add for Europe are probably not a real option for SEA service: IB and AB.)

PABE

Felt the sting of DL no longer being a partner today — had to book a flight to NRT for next week and all of the best options involved flying SEA-NRT on Delta. So I booked PUW-SEA-YVR-NRT on JAL. Although I like JAL's product, double-connecting isn't fun and wastes time.

Now I just wish Cathay and JAL would start serving SEA, but I don't see that coming any time soon.

UAPremierExec

I just flew JetBlue up to Boston - Delta was my preferred but with no more Alaska bennies or EQMS :/

wiffle

Noticed an international DL award I booked with AS miles several months back now allows me to select a Comfort+ seat for free. Anyone seen something similar? Figured it's a post-May 1 glitch, as I haven't had status with DL in eons and am only a AL MVP (not that it would matter anyway).

PABE

It is letting me select C+ seats on my award reservation too ^