Daydreaming of direct Alaska flights at YVR
May 7, 2012, 5:27 pm
#16
Join Date: Mar 2005
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Had AS not drawn down YVR, I think they could have made YVR-Hawaii work because they would have had the frequent flier base in Vancouver. Now, not so much. The only US carrier in the present environment I can see making Vancouver-Hawaii work is HA, because they have the advantage of a hub in HNL. AC and WS make that route work because they have the advantage of feed on the Vancouver end. Every American carrier, sans HA, would have to rely on point-to-point traffic.
As for Kelly's comment, I agree it made sense at the time. Vancouver is a global city, probably more so than Seattle. I still maintain that if it were not for the growth of WestJet, and the feed it provides, AS would be at focus-city level in Vancouver.
Had AS not drawn down YVR, I think they could have made YVR-Hawaii work because they would have had the frequent flier base in Vancouver. Now, not so much. The only US carrier in the present environment I can see making Vancouver-Hawaii work is HA, because they have the advantage of a hub in HNL. AC and WS make that route work because they have the advantage of feed on the Vancouver end. Every American carrier, sans HA, would have to rely on point-to-point traffic.
As for Kelly's comment, I agree it made sense at the time. Vancouver is a global city, probably more so than Seattle. I still maintain that if it were not for the growth of WestJet, and the feed it provides, AS would be at focus-city level in Vancouver.
May 7, 2012, 5:56 pm
#17
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Had AS not drawn down YVR, I think they could have made YVR-Hawaii work because they would have had the frequent flier base in Vancouver. Now, not so much. The only US carrier in the present environment I can see making Vancouver-Hawaii work is HA, because they have the advantage of a hub in HNL. AC and WS make that route work because they have the advantage of feed on the Vancouver end. Every American carrier, sans HA, would have to rely on point-to-point traffic.
As for Kelly's comment, I agree it made sense at the time. Vancouver is a global city, probably more so than Seattle. I still maintain that if it were not for the growth of WestJet, and the feed it provides, AS would be at focus-city level in Vancouver.
Had AS not drawn down YVR, I think they could have made YVR-Hawaii work because they would have had the frequent flier base in Vancouver. Now, not so much. The only US carrier in the present environment I can see making Vancouver-Hawaii work is HA, because they have the advantage of a hub in HNL. AC and WS make that route work because they have the advantage of feed on the Vancouver end. Every American carrier, sans HA, would have to rely on point-to-point traffic.
As for Kelly's comment, I agree it made sense at the time. Vancouver is a global city, probably more so than Seattle. I still maintain that if it were not for the growth of WestJet, and the feed it provides, AS would be at focus-city level in Vancouver.
May 7, 2012, 9:26 pm
#18
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: YVR
Posts: 344
From the Spokane Spokesman in May of '95:
And another blast from the past:
Clearly things change. Drastic changes can occur in an instant, so it's obvious that one wouldn't expect things to stay the same in the nearly 17 years that have passed since these comments. It's still massively disappointing how much AS has drawn down ops here though. Saddest point was when the BR was closed down I think.
Completely agree.
Continental only lasted one season with a DC-10, though IIRC Aloha remained in Vancouver for a few years. I know they got decent business from here to the Pacific islands, especially RAR. I think the problem for the US based airlines, at least during the Aloha time was the lack of feed. They were relying pretty much entirely on the Vancouver market for passengers.
In the case of AS, why add on a 738 from Vancouver to wherever (HNL, OGG, KOA, etc.) and risk lowering load factor not only on their BLI-HNL and SEA-HNL/OGG/KOA flights, but also their YVR-SEA flights? If what they're doing now is working for them, why change it?
The road to recovery for Alaska Air Group Inc. goes through Vancouver, British Columbia.
Chairman John F. Kelly identified better access to the Vancouver market as one of Alaska'a top goals in comments...
Chairman John F. Kelly identified better access to the Vancouver market as one of Alaska'a top goals in comments...
Vancouver can support as many Alaska Airlines flights as Portland, the West Coast regional carrier's No. 2 base behind Seattle with 45 flights daily, Kelly said...
The rejected Alaska Airline bids would have linked Vancouver with Oakland, Calif., continuing to Orange County, Calif., and San Diego, continuing to Cabo San Lucas, Mexico.
In 1997, when all restrictions are off, "watch out," he said. "The biggest opportunities we have are in the Vancouver market"... Horizon already provides extensive Canadian service, with 11 flight daily between Vancouver and Seattle and four daily between Vancouver and Portland..
Combined with feeder and commuter service on Horizon Airlines, the company's other subsidiary, Alaska Air has operation at 77 airports in six states, Canada, Mexico, and Russia.
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I still maintain that if it were not for the growth of WestJet, and the feed it provides, AS would be at focus-city level in Vancouver.
I still maintain that if it were not for the growth of WestJet, and the feed it provides, AS would be at focus-city level in Vancouver.
In the case of AS, why add on a 738 from Vancouver to wherever (HNL, OGG, KOA, etc.) and risk lowering load factor not only on their BLI-HNL and SEA-HNL/OGG/KOA flights, but also their YVR-SEA flights? If what they're doing now is working for them, why change it?
May 7, 2012, 10:24 pm
#19
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,830
From the Spokane Spokesman in May of '95:
And another blast from the past:
Clearly things change. Drastic changes can occur in an instant, so it's obvious that one wouldn't expect things to stay the same in the nearly 17 years that have passed since these comments. It's still massively disappointing how much AS has drawn down ops here though. Saddest point was when the BR was closed down I think.
Completely agree.
Continental only lasted one season with a DC-10, though IIRC Aloha remained in Vancouver for a few years. I know they got decent business from here to the Pacific islands, especially RAR. I think the problem for the US based airlines, at least during the Aloha time was the lack of feed. They were relying pretty much entirely on the Vancouver market for passengers.
In the case of AS, why add on a 738 from Vancouver to wherever (HNL, OGG, KOA, etc.) and risk lowering load factor not only on their BLI-HNL and SEA-HNL/OGG/KOA flights, but also their YVR-SEA flights? If what they're doing now is working for them, why change it?
And another blast from the past:
Clearly things change. Drastic changes can occur in an instant, so it's obvious that one wouldn't expect things to stay the same in the nearly 17 years that have passed since these comments. It's still massively disappointing how much AS has drawn down ops here though. Saddest point was when the BR was closed down I think.
Completely agree.
Continental only lasted one season with a DC-10, though IIRC Aloha remained in Vancouver for a few years. I know they got decent business from here to the Pacific islands, especially RAR. I think the problem for the US based airlines, at least during the Aloha time was the lack of feed. They were relying pretty much entirely on the Vancouver market for passengers.
In the case of AS, why add on a 738 from Vancouver to wherever (HNL, OGG, KOA, etc.) and risk lowering load factor not only on their BLI-HNL and SEA-HNL/OGG/KOA flights, but also their YVR-SEA flights? If what they're doing now is working for them, why change it?
May 25, 2015, 10:23 am
#20
Join Date: Aug 2013
Programs: Alaska MVP Gold
Posts: 917
I noticed a mainline flight SEA-YVR on August 19th, which sadly leaves too early for me to use it on my way back from France (first class award space was open), but I was surprised to see a non-Q400.
Turns out the flight is published for all of August, but *just* August. Is that a normal summer thing? I usually drive to BC, so don't really know the patterns.
Turns out the flight is published for all of August, but *just* August. Is that a normal summer thing? I usually drive to BC, so don't really know the patterns.
May 25, 2015, 11:24 am
#21
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 5,956
AS used to have a big presence at YVR, big enough to even have a Board Room. There's the aforementioned YVR-LAX, plus in the past there have been the following routes that I can remember:
YVR-SFO
YVR-LAS
YVR-SNA (I think most of us know that story)
YVR-ANC (started in response to AC starting this route; AS lasted for a few years, AC is still in the market seasonally although I strongly believe someone could make this route work year-round with the right aircraft)
And of course there is still the Q400 service from YVR to SEA and PDX.
I think the AS drawdown at YVR is two-fold:
1. The advance of WestJet up and down the west coast
2. G4 starting (and succeeding) at BLI, just down BC99.
G4 has been rumored for several years to be looking at BLI-Hawaii, which in reality would be to serve the Lower Mainland a lot more than Bellingham. AS started BLI-HNL as a pre-emptive strike in that market, and BLI-LAS as a response to G4. I think if it wasn't for the Bellingham factor, you'd see many more AS flights out of Vancouver now, particularly to Hawaii.
As for WestJet, I don't think they've had as big of an effect on AS as G4 has in the Lower Mainland, but they do serve many of the same west coast routes that AS did. I think at the end of the day, AS decided it wasn't worth it to compete with two entrenched Canadian carriers on that corridor when their "mega" hub at SEA was only a 20-minute flight away, as well as the aforementioned opportunities at BLI. In some respects YVR suffers from "Portlanditis" in the eyes of AS due to being so close to the SEA hub.
YVR-SFO
YVR-LAS
YVR-SNA (I think most of us know that story)
YVR-ANC (started in response to AC starting this route; AS lasted for a few years, AC is still in the market seasonally although I strongly believe someone could make this route work year-round with the right aircraft)
And of course there is still the Q400 service from YVR to SEA and PDX.
I think the AS drawdown at YVR is two-fold:
1. The advance of WestJet up and down the west coast
2. G4 starting (and succeeding) at BLI, just down BC99.
G4 has been rumored for several years to be looking at BLI-Hawaii, which in reality would be to serve the Lower Mainland a lot more than Bellingham. AS started BLI-HNL as a pre-emptive strike in that market, and BLI-LAS as a response to G4. I think if it wasn't for the Bellingham factor, you'd see many more AS flights out of Vancouver now, particularly to Hawaii.
As for WestJet, I don't think they've had as big of an effect on AS as G4 has in the Lower Mainland, but they do serve many of the same west coast routes that AS did. I think at the end of the day, AS decided it wasn't worth it to compete with two entrenched Canadian carriers on that corridor when their "mega" hub at SEA was only a 20-minute flight away, as well as the aforementioned opportunities at BLI. In some respects YVR suffers from "Portlanditis" in the eyes of AS due to being so close to the SEA hub.
G4 flew BLI-HNL and OGG and finally threw the towel in. Hawaii didn't turn out to be the cash cow they thought it would be. Currently, they only fly HNL to LAX and LAS. AS has, to some degree, effectively fought off G4 out of BLI, it's WestJet that caused Alaska to discontinue most of the YVR flying.
May 25, 2015, 1:25 pm
#23
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: PDX
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Over the years, AS has also flown YVR-PSP/PHX/SAN.
G4 flew BLI-HNL and OGG and finally threw the towel in. Hawaii didn't turn out to be the cash cow they thought it would be. Currently, they only fly HNL to LAX and LAS. AS has, to some degree, effectively fought off G4 out of BLI, it's WestJet that caused Alaska to discontinue most of the YVR flying.
G4 flew BLI-HNL and OGG and finally threw the towel in. Hawaii didn't turn out to be the cash cow they thought it would be. Currently, they only fly HNL to LAX and LAS. AS has, to some degree, effectively fought off G4 out of BLI, it's WestJet that caused Alaska to discontinue most of the YVR flying.
YVR is a big enough market for AS to pay attention to, but with Westjet's growth plus their tie-in with DL, I can see why AS is focusing on its core markets.
Side note, I wouldn't be too surprised if Westjet gave ANC a seasonal try eventually. Seems like a market they could do well in, and they seem to have to success flying to YXY in the summer.
May 25, 2015, 8:23 pm
#24
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 5,956
Fun to read back through this thread and see what had changed in three years.
YVR is a big enough market for AS to pay attention to, but with Westjet's growth plus their tie-in with DL, I can see why AS is focusing on its core markets.
Side note, I wouldn't be too surprised if Westjet gave ANC a seasonal try eventually. Seems like a market they could do well in, and they seem to have to success flying to YXY in the summer.
YVR is a big enough market for AS to pay attention to, but with Westjet's growth plus their tie-in with DL, I can see why AS is focusing on its core markets.
Side note, I wouldn't be too surprised if Westjet gave ANC a seasonal try eventually. Seems like a market they could do well in, and they seem to have to success flying to YXY in the summer.
I wouldn't be surprised to see WS try a seasonal YVR-ANC flight. They could probably snag a fair amount of cruise traffic during the summer. I'm surprised that AS hasn't tried it again. I'm also surprised that AS hasn't tried YXY from SEA, JNU or ANC.
May 25, 2015, 8:32 pm
#25
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: SLC
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Posts: 124
I could see ANC-YXY on a Q400...
May 26, 2015, 12:55 am
#26
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Auckland NZ
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BTW the fee is based on the destination you're travelling to/from. And it had to be paid at the airport in cash originally--a major pain.
May 26, 2015, 3:59 am
#27
Join Date: Jun 2009
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I wounder if the E-175 or CRJ 700 would be commercially viable on ANC-YVR. Based on my understanding of cabotage restrictions, ANC-YVR-SEA/PDX/LAX would be a legal routing provided the exact same carrier is operating both flights.
May 26, 2015, 9:57 am
#28
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,830
Air Canada [Express] fly a CRJ-705 from YVR-ANC in the summer
May 26, 2015, 12:40 pm
#30
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: PDX
Programs: AS MVP Gold 100K
Posts: 2,991
When AS flew YVR-ANC, it was usually a through flight to SAN or SFO, so it's been done before.