SEA-PHX-SEA All -400s ?

[jackal]

Originally Posted by EIPremier

The raft compartments are not on the -700 or -900. I think pretty much every -800 I've flown has had the center aisle storage compartments. I know, for example that 514 and 569 (non-ETOPS) had them. I remember AS put rafts on the aircraft going to CUN even before they applied for ETOPS certification. IIRC, 19 out of 51 -800s in the AS fleet are ETOPS.

I also remember looking at one of those center aisle storage units on an -800 before, and noticed that it said "wheelchair." So it would appear they are not all used for rafts.

Out of the last 11 NGs, six of which have been -800s, I've been on (I just checked my FlightMemory to go back a bit), I'm pretty sure I've only seen the life rafts twice. I'm still not fully convinced they all have them...

[beckoa]

Originally Posted by ANC

mid cabin lavs are a great idea and greatly diminish the parade through F. However I dont like the trays going all the way across hitting the armrest. They dont lay flat half the time and buckle

Agree with both points...

There's something about the 900's F seats that is just...odd. [including the table tray]

[beckoa]

Originally Posted by jackal

Out of the last 11 NGs, six of which have been -800s, I've been on (I just checked my FlightMemory to go back a bit), I'm pretty sure I've only seen the life rafts twice. I'm still not fully convinced they all have them...

I thought most 73H's had the life-rafts... ETOPS or not... even some 900's have them too IIRC

Guess we need someone to clear this up

[Bay Area Blue]

Okay to set everyone straight, here is the deal on the liferafts and the centerline stowage compartments:

737-700 - There are no centerline compartments, thus no liferafts.

737-800 - Aircraft with 4 centerline compartments (most of the fleet) could potentially be ETOPS certified. The only way to tell is to either listen to the FA demo or look for a placard of a raft on the compartment. The rafts would be stored in the FWD and MID compartments. The others that have the 4 compartments but no rafts have the possibility of becoming ETOPS through conversion. If there is only 1 compartment, no chance of ETOPS conversion. The AFT compartment always has a wheelchair.
Oh and each raft holds 56 people so F will have to share with Y and the crew of course (Full ETOPS flight will have 157 passengers and 6 crew).

737-900 - All aircraft have 1 centerline compartment in the AFT that stows a wheelchair.

Hope that clears the air.

[ANC]

Originally Posted by Bay Area Blue

The only way to tell is to either listen to the FA demo or look for a placard of a raft on the compartment. .

They all have Lei's on the tail right? At least thats what I thought anyways

[Bay Area Blue]

Originally Posted by ANC

They all have Lei's on the tail right? At least thats what I thought anyways

Correct. But just in case you can't see the Lei on the tail as another poster mentioned, you can look for the lifereaft placard.

[beckoa]

Originally Posted by Bay Area Blue

Correct. But just in case you can't see the Lei on the tail as another poster mentioned, you can look for the lifereaft placard.

And it says ETOPS on the nosegear's cover too IIRC (or somewhere near that)... by the A/C number...

Thanks for the clarification... didn't realize that *some* of the 73H's could be converted to ETOPS post-production...

Side question then... 'theoretically' could any of AS' 73G's be converted to ETOPS (I know AS leases a bunch of them... could be helpful in the winter with the extreme headwinds encountered ANC-Hawaii)

[ANC]

Originally Posted by beckoa

Side question then... 'theoretically' could any of AS' 73G's be converted to ETOPS (I know AS leases a bunch of them... could be helpful in the winter with the extreme headwinds encountered ANC-Hawaii)

I wonder if it would cost more to retrofit a few 700s than it costs for the several days of headwinds inconvenience. My whole opinion on that ordeal is if AS wants to be running such long flights to where the A/C is so close to its maximum range that if the wind is blowing the wrong way it cant make it...they need to get something larger than a 737!!! Ya I know that'll be the day but in reality they should. DL should be close to some fleet and route reorganization perhaps they could get a half dozen 757s for a decent price

[beckoa]

Originally Posted by ANC

I wonder if it would cost more to retrofit a few 700s than it costs for the several days of headwinds inconvenience. My whole opinion on that ordeal is if AS wants to be running such long flights to where the A/C is so close to its maximum range that if the wind is blowing the wrong way it cant make it...they need to get something larger than a 737!!! Ya I know that'll be the day but in reality they should. DL should be close to some fleet and route reorganization perhaps they could get a half dozen 757s for a decent price

Just need another fuel tank

Didn't the mad dogs use them for flights to Russia?

[rybob1]

The day AS purchases 757s is the day hell freezes over. I don't really see a viable option for AS between the 737 and 767 (assuming they wanted a second type). I suppose I should clarify why I say that - AS has been very focused on keeping a young aircraft fleet, and the 757s are way to old for them, IMO.

I know I'm stating the obvious for many, but AS is very much trying to mimic the LCC model while also still trying to be a legacy as much as possible - including a single aircraft type. Forget the cost synergies of a single type fleet for a minute, one of the reasons AS is able to compete against HA in Hawaii, among others, is because they can fly a cheaper to operate 737 over a 767 or a 757. AS doesn't have to fill 220 seats on a 767, vs the 150(ish) on a 737.

[beckoa]

Originally Posted by rybob1

The day AS purchases 757s is the day hell freezes over. I don't really see a viable option for AS between the 737 and 767 (assuming they wanted a second type). I suppose I should clarify why I say that - AS has been very focused on keeping a young aircraft fleet, and the 757s are way to old for them, IMO.

I know I'm stating the obvious for many, but AS is very much trying to mimic the LCC model while also still trying to be a legacy as much as possible - including a single aircraft type. Forget the cost synergies of a single type fleet for a minute, one of the reasons AS is able to compete against HA in Hawaii, among others, is because they can fly a cheaper to operate 737 over a 767 or a 757. AS doesn't have to fill 220 seats on a 767, vs the 150(ish) on a 737.

CO is running the 739ER... not sure its performance exactly... I understand AS was not satisfied with the performance on the 739... just verbally speculating... (I also understand the 757 had larger engines, in addition to more fuel...)

[hgdf]

Originally Posted by rybob1

The day AS purchases 757s is the day hell freezes over. I don't really see a viable option for AS between the 737 and 767 (assuming they wanted a second type). I suppose I should clarify why I say that - AS has been very focused on keeping a young aircraft fleet, and the 757s are way to old for them, IMO.

I know I'm stating the obvious for many, but AS is very much trying to mimic the LCC model while also still trying to be a legacy as much as possible - including a single aircraft type. Forget the cost synergies of a single type fleet for a minute, one of the reasons AS is able to compete against HA in Hawaii, among others, is because they can fly a cheaper to operate 737 over a 767 or a 757. AS doesn't have to fill 220 seats on a 767, vs the 150(ish) on a 737.

If AS did want to add a larger aircraft type my bet would be on the 787. I could see the 739-ER perhaps someday, but the -800 seems to be by far the most versatile of the 737 NG types. The 787 basically carries a 767 payload for the operating cost of a 757.

[beckoa]

Originally Posted by hgdf

If AS did want to add a larger aircraft type my bet would be on the 787. I could see the 739-ER perhaps someday, but the -800 seems to be by far the most versatile of the 737 NG types. The 787 basically carries a 767 payload for the operating cost of a 757.

787... as much as I'd be excited by this.... just don't see it happening anytime soon... (well granted AS did have an order once for a 747 )

[rybob1]

Originally Posted by beckoa

CO is running the 739ER... not sure its performance exactly... I understand AS was not satisfied with the performance on the 739... just verbally speculating... (I also understand the 757 had larger engines, in addition to more fuel...)

I've heard it mentioned on more than 1 occasion that the biggest problem with the 739 v 757 is that the 739 fully loaded doesn't have the thrust that the 757 did/does. Additionally a 739 isn't able to take off fully loaded at some airports and realize the range possibilities a 757 has (too heavy with the fuel required to take off). I think the argument was using a 739 to go from LGB or SNA to HI.

I"ll be clear here - I know very little about airplane specs/performance, I'm just a dork who likes to read what others have to say about them .

[Bay Area Blue]

Originally Posted by beckoa

And it says ETOPS on the nosegear's cover too IIRC (or somewhere near that)... by the A/C number...

Thanks for the clarification... didn't realize that *some* of the 73H's could be converted to ETOPS post-production...

Side question then... 'theoretically' could any of AS' 73G's be converted to ETOPS (I know AS leases a bunch of them... could be helpful in the winter with the extreme headwinds encountered ANC-Hawaii)

Yes, the nose gear says ETOPS in front of the A/C number.

Not sure about the "theoretically" part. As far as I am aware, either the A/C comes out of the factory certified to fly ETOPS or is provisioned to the point where a few days of modification will make it ETOPS. I think there is an option when the airplanes to either deliver them ETOPS ready, ETOPS provisioned or no ETOPS at all. A 700 might sound good for the range issue but it would be more costly to operate. You are traveling the same distances with most of the same costs spread out over less people. Not to mention for those of you who like your F there are 4 less F seats on the 700. If I am not mistaken, I think there are only a handful of times that s fuel stop is needed. I am not sure what AS does for the customer (ie if vouchers or miles are given for the delay) but I am pretty sure they are notified prior to departure. Overall, the 800 is the best right now for AS to fly over to Hawaii.