I know the Southwest merger has negatives
May 23, 2012, 10:28 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2012
Programs: Airtran A+ Rewards, Delta Sky Miles, US Airways Dividend Miles, Marriott Rewards, Priority Club
Posts: 37
I know the Southwest merger has negatives
but there have got to be some positives.
The points/credits are interchangeable and there are more destinations now, right?
I just don't like Delta - too long for a free one-way, and the numerous statuses and the stupid credit card, which they value more than flight loyalty.
Won't the new airline still be better?
The points/credits are interchangeable and there are more destinations now, right?
I just don't like Delta - too long for a free one-way, and the numerous statuses and the stupid credit card, which they value more than flight loyalty.
Won't the new airline still be better?
May 23, 2012, 11:01 pm
#2
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Blue Ridge, GA
Posts: 5,509
Depends on where you live. And if you're holding a voucher you can't use when WN picked up an AirTran route.
15 cities losing AirTran didn't pick up SWA.
Which is not to say FL would have found them financially sustainable indefinitely.
15 cities losing AirTran didn't pick up SWA.
Which is not to say FL would have found them financially sustainable indefinitely.
May 24, 2012, 12:18 am
#3
Join Date: Oct 2010
Programs: My opinions are my own and not that of my employer(s)
Posts: 1,411
Already FL has new international routes to Mexico though from WN stations. The points/credits transfer seems to offer the highest WN points earners fly anywhere for 100 Airtran credits. Those that do fly both can top off on either for free flights.
And you can burn your points already to fly BDA, NAS, PUJ, CUN, MBJ and AUA all new opportunities for RR members.
Yes some cities are gone. Though some cities will ultimately get a better route network. DSM for example. CAK might ultimately win out over Cleveland but who knows?
The only odd thing I see is not honoring CP on either. Pretty much the same qualification.
And you can burn your points already to fly BDA, NAS, PUJ, CUN, MBJ and AUA all new opportunities for RR members.
Yes some cities are gone. Though some cities will ultimately get a better route network. DSM for example. CAK might ultimately win out over Cleveland but who knows?
The only odd thing I see is not honoring CP on either. Pretty much the same qualification.
May 24, 2012, 7:28 am
#4
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 187
but there have got to be some positives.
The points/credits are interchangeable and there are more destinations now, right?
I just don't like Delta - too long for a free one-way, and the numerous statuses and the stupid credit card, which they value more than flight loyalty.
Won't the new airline still be better?
The points/credits are interchangeable and there are more destinations now, right?
I just don't like Delta - too long for a free one-way, and the numerous statuses and the stupid credit card, which they value more than flight loyalty.
Won't the new airline still be better?
It has always been the Southwest way or the highway. Name any innovation or feature unique to AirTran that Southwest has adopted or plans to adopt due to the acquisition. The Southwest network may have expanded, but neither the product nor prices will benefit.
May 29, 2012, 6:58 am
#5
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,677
There are no positives. Getting rid of the XM radio for no reason other than getting rid of the XM radio, was the first clue. WN took a perfectly good airline and made it less.
May 29, 2012, 6:12 pm
#6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Programs: Avis Preferred Plus
Posts: 622
The only advantage: you can apply canceled flight value to a future flight. That's it.
More cities with WN may benefit non-Atlanta based travelers more. BUt Atlanta based travelers have better direct options with Airtran.
More cities with WN may benefit non-Atlanta based travelers more. BUt Atlanta based travelers have better direct options with Airtran.
May 30, 2012, 8:34 am
#7
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Dallas, TX, AA 3MM EXP, WN
Posts: 1,808
Use of travel funds on canceled flights
Companion Pass
Access to WN route network
New non ATL international service
Not one layoff due to acquisition (may have to move though)
People forget this was not a merger. It was an acquisition. WN bought Airtran for Atlanta, International expansion, and NE cities. Even Airtran management said they would not have lasted much longer as stand alone carrier due to changes in the landscape. At least with WN the employees have a chance with jobs. (WN does not layoff people, its not in their blood). Why would WN change to Airtran methods. They have been the most profitable airline using their tested business model for 40 years while during the same time period every one of their competition has either shut down or gone bankrupt in the last 40 years.
Companion Pass
Access to WN route network
New non ATL international service
Not one layoff due to acquisition (may have to move though)
People forget this was not a merger. It was an acquisition. WN bought Airtran for Atlanta, International expansion, and NE cities. Even Airtran management said they would not have lasted much longer as stand alone carrier due to changes in the landscape. At least with WN the employees have a chance with jobs. (WN does not layoff people, its not in their blood). Why would WN change to Airtran methods. They have been the most profitable airline using their tested business model for 40 years while during the same time period every one of their competition has either shut down or gone bankrupt in the last 40 years.
Last edited by MrMan; May 30, 2012 at 8:42 am
May 30, 2012, 12:04 pm
#8
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Blue Ridge, GA
Posts: 5,509
May 30, 2012, 2:56 pm
#9
Join Date: Sep 2001
Programs: Alaska Tanzanite 100K
Posts: 3,858
Yes, you are technically correct. But Mr. Man, would you work your same job for 40% less, and also be told to do things a different way that makes your job a heck of a lot less productive? While Southwest "observed" the AirTran way of doing things, they never once planned on even considering integrating some of the good things done by the Citris folks, AT ALL.
AirTran's lost luggage rate compared to Southwest is a massive difference, especially when you consider transfer bag lost rates.
to compare:
Aug 11 - FL had 4,282 claims, came out to 1.87 per 1,000.... WN had 37,229 claims, came out to 3.76 per 1,000... and yet WN flew 3.5X more pax
Aug 10 - FL had 4,184 claims, came out to 1.83 per 1,000.... WN had 34,932 claims, came out to 3.57 per 1,000... and same.. 3.5x more pax on WN
Nov 10 - FL had 2,935 claims, came out to 1.43 per 1,000.... WN had 29,746 claims, came out to 3.29 per 1,000... and flew 3x more pax than FL
see a trend here? Even if you used the same scale, WN does a horrible job with bags. So what did they do when they came to Atlanta? Watched. Then told FL "you are going to start transferring bags this way..." This comes first hand from a guy who *wanted* to stay with AirTran/Southwest but just couldn't swallow taking such a massive cut in pay (and he wasn't making over $70k mind you).
I've seen mergers & acquisitions. This one was a total assimilation.
AirTran's lost luggage rate compared to Southwest is a massive difference, especially when you consider transfer bag lost rates.
to compare:
Aug 11 - FL had 4,282 claims, came out to 1.87 per 1,000.... WN had 37,229 claims, came out to 3.76 per 1,000... and yet WN flew 3.5X more pax
Aug 10 - FL had 4,184 claims, came out to 1.83 per 1,000.... WN had 34,932 claims, came out to 3.57 per 1,000... and same.. 3.5x more pax on WN
Nov 10 - FL had 2,935 claims, came out to 1.43 per 1,000.... WN had 29,746 claims, came out to 3.29 per 1,000... and flew 3x more pax than FL
see a trend here? Even if you used the same scale, WN does a horrible job with bags. So what did they do when they came to Atlanta? Watched. Then told FL "you are going to start transferring bags this way..." This comes first hand from a guy who *wanted* to stay with AirTran/Southwest but just couldn't swallow taking such a massive cut in pay (and he wasn't making over $70k mind you).
I've seen mergers & acquisitions. This one was a total assimilation.
Last edited by UAPremierExec; May 30, 2012 at 3:06 pm
May 31, 2012, 1:23 am
#10
Join Date: Oct 2010
Programs: My opinions are my own and not that of my employer(s)
Posts: 1,411
deleted as pretty much useless
Last edited by traveller001; May 31, 2012 at 8:08 am
May 31, 2012, 8:18 am
#11
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: In Exile
Programs: I fly for free.
Posts: 435
This comes first hand from a guy who *wanted* to stay with AirTran/Southwest but just couldn't swallow taking such a massive cut in pay (and he wasn't making over $70k mind you).
They cashed out.
Last edited by PA42; May 31, 2012 at 8:30 am
May 31, 2012, 8:35 am
#12
Join Date: Sep 2010
Programs: Avis Preferred Plus
Posts: 622
As an Atlanta based traveler, I guess I am selfish and want Airtran to stay because I have a feeling we will have more non stop options and better discount fares with Airtran. I miss the XM feature already. I also prefer Airtran's A+ Rewards program to WN's because you can use as little as 4 credits for an upgrade. The only thing I don't like about A+ Rewards is the one year expiration. Before I became elite , I was forced to use the cxredits before I felt a trip warranted using the credits instead of cash.
If you are not an Atlanta based traveler, what are the advantages of Airtran over a Southwest setup other than Business Class and assigned seating?
What percentage of non-Atlanta based travelers use Airtran for one stop flights versus direct flights?
If you are not an Atlanta based traveler, what are the advantages of Airtran over a Southwest setup other than Business Class and assigned seating?
What percentage of non-Atlanta based travelers use Airtran for one stop flights versus direct flights?
Last edited by saneman; May 31, 2012 at 9:03 am
May 31, 2012, 9:06 am
#13
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Blue Ridge, GA
Posts: 5,509
Was Robert Fornaro's $2.9 million in benefits once the deal was finalized mis-reported? Or was it $5.7 million? Did lead FL execs NOT receive lump sum cash payouts equal to two times their base salaries?
Ft. Worth Star-Telegram
May 31, 2012, 9:42 am
#14
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: In Exile
Programs: I fly for free.
Posts: 435
Was Robert Fornaro's $2.9 million in benefits once the deal was finalized mis-reported? Or was it $5.7 million? Did lead FL execs NOT receive lump sum cash payouts equal to two times their base salaries?
Ft. Worth Star-Telegram
Ft. Worth Star-Telegram
Fair enough. What was the situation?
Last edited by PA42; May 31, 2012 at 9:48 am
May 31, 2012, 10:13 am
#15
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Dallas, TX, AA 3MM EXP, WN
Posts: 1,808
Actually I think Legal Tender has it right. If it was not WN, Airtran share holders would have cashed out to someone and consolidated. They would eventually have sold to someone.