Insolvency: What happens with our miles and reward tickets?
Aug 25, 2017, 1:44 pm
#46
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: ZRH
Programs: M&M SEN (*G), HH Diamond
Posts: 2,418
Since they are issued on AB (745) stock, they will most likely be uselesss once AB is bankrupt. I would start looking for a (refundable) backup plan.
Aug 25, 2017, 2:18 pm
#47
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 496
My (super optimistic but selfish) thoughts are that AB can be alive for at least a month due to the emergency loan by German government, so my tickets are still safe. I don't know if I am right here.
Last edited by samwkchan; Aug 25, 2017 at 2:19 pm Reason: Clarification of my thoughts
Aug 25, 2017, 2:56 pm
#48
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: ZRH
Programs: M&M SEN (*G), HH Diamond
Posts: 2,418
No one can guarantee anything. Hence, I would look for a backup plan in your situation.
Aug 25, 2017, 7:32 pm
#49
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: NYC
Programs: AA 2MM, Bonvoy LTT, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 14,636
Your rights as a creditor, which is all you are as a ticket or miles holder, are determined by laws specific to the jurisdiction.
The EU and US both provide specific protection in bankruptcy for tickets purchased with a credit card. There is no such protection for other forms of payment and it is one of the reasons you should never purchase a future service such as an air ticket with anything other than a credit card.
People who have purchased AB tickets with any other form of payment are unlikely to see much of anything if AB cannot perform their ticket.
The EU and US both provide specific protection in bankruptcy for tickets purchased with a credit card. There is no such protection for other forms of payment and it is one of the reasons you should never purchase a future service such as an air ticket with anything other than a credit card.
People who have purchased AB tickets with any other form of payment are unlikely to see much of anything if AB cannot perform their ticket.
Aug 27, 2017, 12:13 pm
#50
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 9
Regulation Z, 12 CFR §226.12 of the Truth in Lending Act (TILA) 1968.
In the EU it's Directives 2007/64/EC and 2008/48/EC.
In both cases it's the card issuer on the hook when goods/services aren't supplied and it was paid for by credit card.
-K.
In the EU it's Directives 2007/64/EC and 2008/48/EC.
In both cases it's the card issuer on the hook when goods/services aren't supplied and it was paid for by credit card.
-K.
Aug 27, 2017, 8:51 pm
#51
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: NYC
Programs: AA 2MM, Bonvoy LTT, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 14,636
Thanks but I don't see anything in 12 CFR 226.12 mentioning protection in bankruptcy.
The closest I've seen is you can withhold payment (assuming you haven't already paid the credit card bill already) on a dispute provided the transaction takes place either in the card member state or within 100 miles of card member address. It's not clear cut where transaction takes place (eg address of AB merchant account or departure airport etc). It's also not clear cut how it covers card member if they have already paid the credit card bill already.
The closest I've seen is you can withhold payment (assuming you haven't already paid the credit card bill already) on a dispute provided the transaction takes place either in the card member state or within 100 miles of card member address. It's not clear cut where transaction takes place (eg address of AB merchant account or departure airport etc). It's also not clear cut how it covers card member if they have already paid the credit card bill already.
Sep 4, 2017, 9:33 pm
#52
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Great Britain
Programs: Air: QR Silver. BA Silver Emirates, Hotels: CC Gold, IHG Spire AMB, Hilton Diamond.
Posts: 1,487
Do the regulations still apply when a good or service has only been part paid for by credit card ?
And infact has ANY good or service been paid for by credit card in this scenario given that only taxes and fees have been paid for on credit card, not the flight itself ?
Last edited by Sisyphus1carus; Sep 4, 2017 at 9:40 pm
Sep 5, 2017, 12:25 pm
#53
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: NYC
Programs: AA 2MM, Bonvoy LTT, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 14,636
Given that this thread is specifically looking at points redemptions it is reasonable to expect that everyone has paid for the bulk of their flight with AB TopBonus points rather than cash / credit card. Only taxes and fees will have been paid by credit card.
Do the regulations still apply when a good or service has only been part paid for by credit card ?
And infact has ANY good or service been paid for by credit card in this scenario given that only taxes and fees have been paid for on credit card, not the flight itself ?
Do the regulations still apply when a good or service has only been part paid for by credit card ?
And infact has ANY good or service been paid for by credit card in this scenario given that only taxes and fees have been paid for on credit card, not the flight itself ?
Nov 7, 2017, 8:42 pm
#55
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Bangkok, Kuala Lumpur
Programs: AA EXP, CX MPC Green, DL Gold, TG ROP Gold, TK Elite
Posts: 101
Now that AB has ceased operations, I was wondering if anyone has had success in flying using an AB redemption ticket (issued prior to insolvency) on another oneworld carrier since AB's demise?
I have an AB ticketed (issued prior to insolvency) flight on Qantas for next year. QF's manage my booking shows my booking as still intact now. I am not optimistic it will stay this way for long, but is there any reason to hope that the ticket will be honoured?
Oneworld (https://de.oneworld.com/news-informa...ob-1/maximized) seems to suggest that it will: "airberlin topbonus cardholders have not been able to make redemption bookings for flights on any airlines since it filed for insolvency. Redemption flights made before then remain valid."
I am not convinced, but am also hoping I'm wrong.
I have an AB ticketed (issued prior to insolvency) flight on Qantas for next year. QF's manage my booking shows my booking as still intact now. I am not optimistic it will stay this way for long, but is there any reason to hope that the ticket will be honoured?
Oneworld (https://de.oneworld.com/news-informa...ob-1/maximized) seems to suggest that it will: "airberlin topbonus cardholders have not been able to make redemption bookings for flights on any airlines since it filed for insolvency. Redemption flights made before then remain valid."
I am not convinced, but am also hoping I'm wrong.