Air Berlin Files for Bankruptcy
Aug 17, 2017, 8:35 am
#136
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Berlin
Programs: BAEC; LH M&M; HH Diamond
Posts: 814
OK, thank you both.
I have november tickets on a route (TXL-CPH) where AB is the sole operator with 4 daily non-stops. So no legacy carriers currently, but with 4 daily there must be some demand.
I gather november is likely beyond the point where either the reconstruction/liquidation/dismemberment has finished or the emergency cash is gone. As I need to fly, I probably should buy new tickets elsewhere and wait for the AB flight to be cancelled and hope for money back from credit card company. It is just a question about if I need to make new tickets refundable in case AB tickets actually are honoured.
As this isn't big news here, it is slightly difficult to monitor the situation.
I have november tickets on a route (TXL-CPH) where AB is the sole operator with 4 daily non-stops. So no legacy carriers currently, but with 4 daily there must be some demand.
I gather november is likely beyond the point where either the reconstruction/liquidation/dismemberment has finished or the emergency cash is gone. As I need to fly, I probably should buy new tickets elsewhere and wait for the AB flight to be cancelled and hope for money back from credit card company. It is just a question about if I need to make new tickets refundable in case AB tickets actually are honoured.
As this isn't big news here, it is slightly difficult to monitor the situation.
Aug 17, 2017, 9:08 am
#137
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: VIE
Programs: SAS EBS / *A Silver, Hilton Diamond, Radisson VIP, IHG Platinum
Posts: 3,738
They use this random schedule on plenty of routes, another example would be VIE. It's quite annoying.
Aug 17, 2017, 9:59 am
#138
Moderator, Finnair
Join Date: May 2011
Location: MMX (CPH)
Programs: Eurobonus Diamond, QR Gold, AY+ Platinum, A3*G, Nordic Choice Lifetime Platinum, SJ Prio Black
Posts: 14,164
Thanks all for chiming in, I feel I am driving this thread OT.
Aug 17, 2017, 6:35 pm
#139
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Tokyo
Programs: JAL Metal Card (OWE), SAS Eurobonus Gold (*G), Marriott Titanium (LTP), Tokyu Hotels Platinum
Posts: 21,090
I would suspect it is to hang on to the slots. TXL is fairly congested, so if they give them up they might not easily get them back....
Aug 18, 2017, 1:38 am
#140
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,682
Aer Lingus was able to shift its 13 weekly Dublin flights from Schonefeld in October 2015 and I didn't hear anything about slots being so difficult to acquire there.
Aug 18, 2017, 5:59 am
#141
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: HKG
Posts: 1,502
The chance for that is very, very close to 0%.
If you have a ticket already, you can hope, that your flight is before AB runs out of money.
To book a new ticket now means to take the high risk of a total loss. Maybe not a problem for flights taking place tomorrow, but for flights in November or December, that risk may be higher than 90%.
If you really need to book an AB flight now, don't book it at AirBerlin. If possible, you can book that flight on another ticket stock than 745- at another airline (OW, EYP), if possible. That way you will maybe not get your flight, but in that case you will get your money back.
If you have a ticket already, you can hope, that your flight is before AB runs out of money.
To book a new ticket now means to take the high risk of a total loss. Maybe not a problem for flights taking place tomorrow, but for flights in November or December, that risk may be higher than 90%.
If you really need to book an AB flight now, don't book it at AirBerlin. If possible, you can book that flight on another ticket stock than 745- at another airline (OW, EYP), if possible. That way you will maybe not get your flight, but in that case you will get your money back.
Aug 18, 2017, 6:16 am
#142
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Koala Lemur
Programs: SK EBD LTG (*G)
Posts: 2,444
Isn't this just a summer schedule thing? SK does this at a lot of airports in summer. Destinations that they consider business-heavy are swapped for vacation resorts. Is the schedule not back to normal in September?
Aug 18, 2017, 7:51 am
#143
Join Date: Jan 2014
Programs: Amtrak Guest Rewards (SE), Virgin America Elevate, Hyatt Gold Passport (Platinum), VIA Preference
Posts: 3,134
Because the carrier is not financially viable and oneworld doesn't really need AB. Sure, it makes a few connections and routes within Europe a little easier on the alliance but overall it is an overlap, not a unique set of routes or airports.
Also, buying an airline that lost more than a billion dollars the past couple years doesn't sound like a particularly smart investment. It'll be sold off for pieces.
Also, buying an airline that lost more than a billion dollars the past couple years doesn't sound like a particularly smart investment. It'll be sold off for pieces.
I do wonder...would pax who bought tickets affected by the new non-refundability be able to file a dispute with their credit cards if they wanted to change/cancel (either due to changed plans or just plain lack of confidence in AB's continued operating status)?
Aug 18, 2017, 8:22 am
#144
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Great Britain
Programs: Air: QR Silver. BA Silver Emirates, Hotels: CC Gold, IHG Spire AMB, Hilton Diamond.
Posts: 1,487
mid Aug to mid Nov is the 3 month period and my flights are 2nd Nov & 16th Nov DUS-CUR (books about a week ago).
I am also sceptical that €150m will last three full months. I guess I’ll just have to wait and see.
If cancelled I’m wondering if TopBonus will reinstate my points. I don’t expect so but it depends how TopBonus actually pays AirBerlin; in terms of how and at what time / date. TopBonus may actually still have my points, not AirBerlin (or the cash value they’d pay AirBerlin).
The other complication I have (and others I expect) is that IF points are reimbursed, how will they be treated if they are reinstated after the expiration date of the original points !!
ANY IDEA IF THE TRANSFR OF POINTS BETWEEN TOPBONUS AND AIRBERLIN CAN BE STOPPED ????????
Those who have paid in cash might be in a slightly better position if flights are cancelled as whilst AB won’t give you a penny you might find credit card or travel insurance will compensate you.
The issue with using points which complicates my booking is that it’s nothing to do with a credit card and I expect most (if not all) travel insurance companies won’t cover loss of points.
Therefore if I do manage to get Credit Card to refund me or Travel Insurance compensation it would only be for the taxes & fees paid (about Ł400) and not the true value of two business class flights to Curacao
There goes my gift to my Mum for her 70th Birthday of 2weeks in Curacao :-(
I am also sceptical that €150m will last three full months. I guess I’ll just have to wait and see.
If cancelled I’m wondering if TopBonus will reinstate my points. I don’t expect so but it depends how TopBonus actually pays AirBerlin; in terms of how and at what time / date. TopBonus may actually still have my points, not AirBerlin (or the cash value they’d pay AirBerlin).
The other complication I have (and others I expect) is that IF points are reimbursed, how will they be treated if they are reinstated after the expiration date of the original points !!
ANY IDEA IF THE TRANSFR OF POINTS BETWEEN TOPBONUS AND AIRBERLIN CAN BE STOPPED ????????
Those who have paid in cash might be in a slightly better position if flights are cancelled as whilst AB won’t give you a penny you might find credit card or travel insurance will compensate you.
The issue with using points which complicates my booking is that it’s nothing to do with a credit card and I expect most (if not all) travel insurance companies won’t cover loss of points.
Therefore if I do manage to get Credit Card to refund me or Travel Insurance compensation it would only be for the taxes & fees paid (about Ł400) and not the true value of two business class flights to Curacao
There goes my gift to my Mum for her 70th Birthday of 2weeks in Curacao :-(
Aug 18, 2017, 8:46 am
#145
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: VIE
Programs: SAS EBS / *A Silver, Hilton Diamond, Radisson VIP, IHG Platinum
Posts: 3,738
VIE has random schedule all year long (and no service in summer).
Aug 18, 2017, 9:00 am
#146
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Selma, Fort Hay, Oregon
Posts: 38
It's a shame. Prices are sure to rise on Air Berlin routes. In March we traveled with AB non-stop LAX -> DUS for a very competitive price. If Lufthansa gets a hold of the remains of this business, they will certainly raise rates and then there will remain only such dubious cut-rate operators as Turkish and Aeroflot; pity the budget traveler.
Aug 18, 2017, 9:40 am
#147
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: DFW
Posts: 522
I'm flying ORD-TXL in December. Booked with AA miles. Would it be wise to cancel my ticket at this time?
EDIT: Nevermind. I forgot that since it's AA, they'll get me to TXL somehow.
EDIT: Nevermind. I forgot that since it's AA, they'll get me to TXL somehow.
Last edited by poisson; Aug 18, 2017 at 10:03 am
Aug 18, 2017, 12:50 pm
#148
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Tokyo
Programs: JAL Metal Card (OWE), SAS Eurobonus Gold (*G), Marriott Titanium (LTP), Tokyu Hotels Platinum
Posts: 21,090
I know TXL is bursting at the seams, and that the physical infrastructure was designed for a much smaller flow of passengers - but is the airport actually slot constrained?
Aer Lingus was able to shift its 13 weekly Dublin flights from Schonefeld in October 2015 and I didn't hear anything about slots being so difficult to acquire there.
Aer Lingus was able to shift its 13 weekly Dublin flights from Schonefeld in October 2015 and I didn't hear anything about slots being so difficult to acquire there.
Aug 18, 2017, 12:52 pm
#149
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Tokyo
Programs: JAL Metal Card (OWE), SAS Eurobonus Gold (*G), Marriott Titanium (LTP), Tokyu Hotels Platinum
Posts: 21,090
I checked into November. Still the same... Or the app is being troublesome.
Aug 19, 2017, 2:13 am
#150
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Germany
Programs: *G, OWS
Posts: 214
To be honest I don't know the details. The media reports is that TXL is operating at max capacity. But if that is runway, or terminal capacity I did not really study. We are clearly not talking LHR difficult, but it may still be worth hanging on to them rather than reacquiring them.
Regarding the proposal for somebody to buy and mostly liquidate: that would only be feasible once AB has been through bankruptcy proceedings and gotten rid of its debt. Currently it's looking like it will be split up and sold before bankruptcy proceedings really begin 3 months after declaring insolvency.
The proceeds from those sales will then be used to satisfy all new debt created after declaring insolvency (especially the government loan)- anything remaining would be used to satisfy old debts (Ethiad, EU261,...)
