Air Berlin Files for Bankruptcy
Aug 15, 2017, 11:29 pm
#91
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Koala Lemur
Programs: SK EBD LTG (*G)
Posts: 2,445
There is no way I can make my OW status flying only long hauls. On short hauls this is too impractical. My time is too precious to suffer LHR (this is not only a detour but also one of the worst airports to connect at efficiently; frankly TXL was more efficient, with all its delays and cancellations). This simply means I go back to *A. AB was a key component of me being a OW frequent flier. I am sure a lot of DACH customers will decide the same. OW right now seems to be USA centered. AA customers still have a pretty decent setup.
Aug 15, 2017, 11:31 pm
#92
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Germany
Programs: *G, OWS
Posts: 214
You may wish to check your figures - they are completely inaccurate.
Official EU figures show the UK accounted for 232 million air passengers in 2015 - by far the largest of any of the EU28.
The UK accounts for 25% of all air passengers in the EU.
http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statist...ort_statistics
Official EU figures show the UK accounted for 232 million air passengers in 2015 - by far the largest of any of the EU28.
The UK accounts for 25% of all air passengers in the EU.
http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statist...ort_statistics
Aug 15, 2017, 11:35 pm
#93
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Tokyo
Programs: JAL Metal Card (OWE), SAS Eurobonus Gold (*G), Marriott Titanium (LTP), Tokyu Hotels Platinum
Posts: 21,098
Perhaps, I did not make my point clear. Of course, BA made an amazing success tunnelling pax via LHR to long haul destination. However, I believe (no data) LHR carries a negligible part of intra European traffic. This is the part where OW is extremely weak. Perhaps, this is a sound business decision on the side of IAG. I have no idea. Perhaps there is no money in short haul traffic in Europe. Somehow, however both *A and ST are really strong there.
There is no way I can make my OW status flying only long hauls. On short hauls this is too impractical. My time is too precious to suffer LHR (this is not only a detour but also one of the worst airports to connect at efficiently; frankly TXL was more efficient, with all its delays and cancellations). This simply means I go back to *A. AB was a key component of me being a OW frequent flier. I am sure a lot of DACH customers will decide the same. OW right now seems to be USA centered. AA customers still have a pretty decent setup.
There is no way I can make my OW status flying only long hauls. On short hauls this is too impractical. My time is too precious to suffer LHR (this is not only a detour but also one of the worst airports to connect at efficiently; frankly TXL was more efficient, with all its delays and cancellations). This simply means I go back to *A. AB was a key component of me being a OW frequent flier. I am sure a lot of DACH customers will decide the same. OW right now seems to be USA centered. AA customers still have a pretty decent setup.
I agree, Europe is going to become a very weak point for OW if/when AB is no more.
Aug 16, 2017, 12:43 am
#94
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 9
Topbonus shop is still offline:
"Der topbonus Prämienshop ist zurzeit nicht verfügbar."
Just called the topbonus helpline to ask them why I can't access it. They said it is planned downtime and has nothing to do with the insolvency. I also asked them whether I would lose the miles and they said no.
Thoughts? I certainly have my doubts...
"Der topbonus Prämienshop ist zurzeit nicht verfügbar."
Just called the topbonus helpline to ask them why I can't access it. They said it is planned downtime and has nothing to do with the insolvency. I also asked them whether I would lose the miles and they said no.
Thoughts? I certainly have my doubts...
Aug 16, 2017, 1:03 am
#95
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Out of position
Programs: Accor, IHG, LH, BAEC, DB
Posts: 266
The UK accounts for 25% of all air passengers in the EU.
http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statist...ort_statistics
http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statist...ort_statistics
Aug 16, 2017, 1:31 am
#96
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,694
I don't understand this fixation with intra-European traffic. Yes, there are not many people flying from, say, Germany to, say, Austria via Heathrow. [Just as there are not many people flying from, say, Ireland to the UK via Germany; or Sweden to Norway via France]. But I don't understand the emphasis placed on this sort of traffic. It didn't help AB to focus on this sort of low-yield point-to-point traffic. All alliances have their weaknesses. If you want to be an alliance flyer and you live in Central Europe, you better get used to Star Alliance!
Aug 16, 2017, 1:35 am
#97
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,694
Interesting chart. If you read the full text though you can see that those figures include all passengers including passengers connecting in LHR. I don't think a passenger connecting in LHR has anything to do with the importance and size of the U.K. market, it simply shows that LHR is the most important international hub in Europe
(The only metric on which the UK market lags is on domestic journeys. Here, the UK comes only 5th, behind (respectively) Spain, Italy, France and Germany)
Last edited by irishguy28; Aug 16, 2017 at 1:46 am
Aug 16, 2017, 1:55 am
#98
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Koala Lemur
Programs: SK EBD LTG (*G)
Posts: 2,445
This misses my point that *A is left with no alternative intra-Europe (your previous post sums it up better). This might be fine for IAG (and for *A). It is not fine for me. For a large market segment, where I also find myself, there is no real competition. LCCs don't really compete with *A on the routes and connections I fly. Perhaps this will change, but for now LCCs managed to press prices down on direct connections that I rarely use (like Paris and London). I don't think this is beneficial to air traffic in Europe. AB was (?) not a messiah saving the market, but it was working in the right place. As far as I understand the market was not really the reason for its failure; what people say here typically, it was irresponsibly taken debt. I do hope that we are left with a bit more than *A and LCCs.
PS. I fly *A more than OW, but I do believe in choice and competition. Now this will be severely limited. I expect lowering of service on *A (again) or raising of fares as a result.
PS. I fly *A more than OW, but I do believe in choice and competition. Now this will be severely limited. I expect lowering of service on *A (again) or raising of fares as a result.
Aug 16, 2017, 2:02 am
#99
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,694
The LCCs have yet to penetrate the German (dare I say "Central European" markets) to the extent that they have in most other European countries. If airberlin is to fail, then I hope that that is something good that comes out of it - that these markets are exposed to more vigorous competition.
And this is why I hope that any proposed rescue/take-over of airberlin by Lufthansa is subjected to similar remedies that were imposed on BA when they took over bmi - the release of slot pairs at TXL, DUS and VIE, and the requirement to provide feed passengers to those other airlines that request it on a normal commercial basis.
Aug 16, 2017, 2:05 am
#100
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: BER (awaiting opening!) / POZ
Programs: BA, IB, LH, U2
Posts: 35
Why am I only seeing mentions of Central Europe - there's Eastern Europe, too. AB used to have 1 daily flight - although in the evening, which made connections to the US impossible without overnighting in Berlin but at least it was an option to having to book with BA - many places besides the East Coast still require an overnight in London but their fees are so high, it's a non-starter. And if you try to get anywhere in Europe, first, you have to pray that the routing is allowed, i. e. going all the way west to LHR and then to go east to your final destination, then, that you can afford to spend several hours in the air many times over what a direct flight would be. All IAG airlines are based so far west, they are useless for Eastern and Central European residents. S7 can't be viewed as quite European, although that's technically correct. So, we're left with AY, which is in a good location but has such a limited network that only suits residents of Finland. So, OW coverage of Europe is awful - it was bad enough with AB but without it, it's tragic.
With BER still not ready, will they move them to SXF, or open a hub at TXL as well?
And DUS to Caribbean resorts, which I suppose might lead to Condor expansion.
It would be nice to see OpenSkies run E.g. TXL-JFK.
But I fear that if IAG does anything it will be with Level.
Aug 16, 2017, 2:24 am
#102
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: between MUC and NUE
Programs: BA Gold, LH Senator
Posts: 421
Aug 16, 2017, 2:40 am
#103
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Montreux CH
Programs: FB Platinum, M&M FTL, BA Blue
Posts: 11,609
Topbonus shop is still offline:
"Der topbonus Prämienshop ist zurzeit nicht verfügbar."
Just called the topbonus helpline to ask them why I can't access it. They said it is planned downtime and has nothing to do with the insolvency. I also asked them whether I would lose the miles and they said no.
Thoughts? I certainly have my doubts...
"Der topbonus Prämienshop ist zurzeit nicht verfügbar."
Just called the topbonus helpline to ask them why I can't access it. They said it is planned downtime and has nothing to do with the insolvency. I also asked them whether I would lose the miles and they said no.
Thoughts? I certainly have my doubts...
There are the TXL/DUS to Spanish/Med Islands routes which Easyjet will partly replace, whether using ex-AB metal and staff, or newly bought/hired.
With BER still not ready, will they move them to SXF, or open a hub at TXL as well?
And DUS to Caribbean resorts, which I suppose might lead to Condor expansion.
It would be nice to see OpenSkies run E.g. TXL-JFK.
But I fear that if IAG does anything it will be with Level.
With BER still not ready, will they move them to SXF, or open a hub at TXL as well?
And DUS to Caribbean resorts, which I suppose might lead to Condor expansion.
It would be nice to see OpenSkies run E.g. TXL-JFK.
But I fear that if IAG does anything it will be with Level.
It would be great if another OW carrier could come and operate flights in central and east Europe. Ryanair doesn't shy away from operating flights in other countries.
Aug 16, 2017, 2:45 am
#104
Moderator, SkyTeam and Germany
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: FRA/STR/NUE
Programs: BA, LH, KL, EY, IHG, Marriott, Hyatt, Hilton, Radisson
Posts: 5,946
Yeah - with talks between LH and EY/AB going on for a long time now IMO the most interesting parts of the business will be sold very soon and routes continued without any lapse from November on just under a different brand.
IMO the rumors published by Ryanair that the "sudden" insolvency might be a planned operation between EY and LH has some credibility to me. LH gets big chunks out of the AB business without taking over old debt via the insolvency state of AB.
This would be good news IMO. I just hope that fares on many new LH monopoly routes will not be skyrocketing...
On the future of topbonus: I have no idea about it...
IMO the rumors published by Ryanair that the "sudden" insolvency might be a planned operation between EY and LH has some credibility to me. LH gets big chunks out of the AB business without taking over old debt via the insolvency state of AB.
This would be good news IMO. I just hope that fares on many new LH monopoly routes will not be skyrocketing...
On the future of topbonus: I have no idea about it...
Aug 16, 2017, 2:48 am
#105
Join Date: Apr 2015
Programs: Some
Posts: 5,231
Perhaps, I did not make my point clear. Of course, BA made an amazing success tunnelling pax via LHR to long haul destination. However, I believe (no data) LHR carries a negligible part of intra European traffic. This is the part where OW is extremely weak. Perhaps, this is a sound business decision on the side of IAG. I have no idea. Perhaps there is no money in short haul traffic in Europe. Somehow, however both *A and ST are really strong there.
Of course, someone based in DACH is going to prefer a carrier that doesn't require a massive detour for them through LHR for intra-Europe flights, which is also entirely logical.
