Ged

So. Might sound obvious but I have been searching for the cheapest fares to fly Christchurch to Orlando using Air New Zealand - my local and national carrier. We flew them last year and picked up good deals of around $850/ $900 each leg to the states followed by a few hundred for United to fly Houston to Orlando. This time around they appear expensive (in comparison) to previous years. Total for 5 adults was coming in around the $13 to 15k mark all in. That's roughly 10/12K to the states then another $3K internal returns between major stateside airport and Orlando MCO. Pondered a bit then waited for the bi monthly sales. Up they popped but excluded the 2 weeks before and after the easter holidays when we would be travelling. No surprises so put it to bed and forgot about it as too expensive. Then for giggles used one of the big flight search engines and it threw up a Qantas flight for $1580 return all in through some 3rd party booking site. Went to Qantas website directly and was stunned to secure a total return price of under $8000NZ from Christchurch to Orlando return for 5 adults.
Sure I don't get to use Koru card or my Air NZ lounge vouchers from my airpoints card spend but for roughly $4 to $5k I can live with it.

So getting to the question. How do carriers from similar regions price their flights. Is it purely supply and demand ? Do they have a set few at low cost lost leaders with the majority at higher fares etc. I'm just gobsmacked that there was such a difference between airlines who essentially follow similar routes albeit AIR NZ lands at Houston while Qantas lands at Dallas. Thanks for any tips.

Thai-Kiwi

It all depends!

You may find the QF pricing to depart from Australia rather than NZ is actually more expensive than your quote! Depends on markets.

Koeran Air Auckland-Seoul is usually 50% more expensive than routing via Seoul to a regional destination (ie Auckland-[transit Seoul]-regional neighbour).

Presumably this is to extract more $$$ from the business and Korean ex-pats returnin to Seoul, than for the NZ-based (leisure) travellers who aren't visiting Korea per se.

Similarly, BKK-AKL-BKK on THAI, is around 20-30% more expensive that ICN-(BKK)-AKL-(BKK)-ICN.

sbiddle

QF and NZ both compete very fiercely to grab customers in the other's home market. For this reason you get NZ fares to the US ex Aussie cheaper than you can buy them in NZ, and likewise QF sell fares via Aussie cheaper than they sell them in their home market.

WLGNZ

Happens a lot.
For travel I am looking to do in January 2018, Air NZ business is $9,500. Booking identical flights on the United USA website comes to $5,500 (after changed back to NZ$ from US$) ........

Thai-Kiwi

This is a good point - often the market in which fares are purchased is important.

Buying a domestic NZ flight from the co.nz website will almost always bring up cheaper fare options than booking from other AirNZ overseas sites.

Codeshares can also offer savings for exactly the same flights - but there can be important points to consider such as mileage earn, losing ability to one-up or seek upgrades and so on.

sbiddle

Not to mention the simple fact NZ have just killed the competition to the US. There is no real need at present to discount.

Mwenenzi

Yes. That is common. The home airline is more expensive that a competing airline flying via home base (in other country). Some people will only fly the the home airline. Will not look at others.

Last year i was pricing business class Aust USA. On QF AKL-SYD-SFO was several thousand cheaper than SYD-SFO on the same day/flight, even allowing for the AKL positioning flight/hotel (the trip did not eventuate)

Ged will have some USA domestic flights on AA
The consideration for Ged is which ffp to credit those to:- QF, AA or another ffp?

Ged

Thanks for the information. Interestingly enough I always just goto Air NZ for domestic NZ and international short hops across the ditch to Oz. Will be thinking differently re that from now on. I also didn't think re Air NZ killing competition to the US but makes sense as well given they and the United codeshare seem to dominate the routes. The ffp for someone who has a few national and the odd australian flight per year just doesn't add upto the difference I realised in taking the family on holiday via Qantas. Thanks again. Some interesting reading here as to how it works.

Mwenenzi

Air NZ plays on the NZ flag bearer to the most people.

For domestic NZ little to no choice on many routes. JQ Jetstar is small and not that reliable.

Trans Tasman I can very competitive if you look (many Kiwi's do not).
China Airlines CI has been the lowest price by far for the last few summers. Often $100 less than an Air NZ fare on a one way basis.
Aust NZ & NZ Aust I usually fly on different airlines, based on schedule then price. Influence of frequent flyer miles is a long last.

Airlines that fly Australia (CNS* MCY* BNE OOL SYD CBR MEL ADL PER) to/from New Zealand (AKL WLG CHC DUD ZQN) (not from all airports to all airports).
- Air Asia D7 (OOL - AKL) from March 2016
- Air New Zealand NZ (codeshares with VA) [Star Alliance] {* winter seasonal}
- China Airlines CI (BNE SYD MEL** – AKL CHC**) [Skyteam Alliance] {** November to March}
- Emirates EK (codeshares with QF). EK stop SYD AKL A380 flights 13 Jul 2017
- Jetstar JQ (owned by QF)
- LAN LA (SYD AKL) [OneWorld Alliance]
- Philippines PR (CNS - AKL)
- Qantas QF (codeshares with EK) [OneWorld Alliance]
- Singapore SQ (CBR WLG) [Star Alliance] from Sept 2016
- Virgin Australia VA (codeshares with Air NZ & AC*) (Delta & AC* partner) [*= some routes in 2017]

jdavido

I found this video that explains the rules of international pricing competition

Ged

Excellent thanks. Quite obvious when you sit back and think. Maximised revenue albeit at a lower profit margin. Bulk bums on seats wins every time unless the flights are already oversubscribed via high(er) paying passengers

poopbunny

I found these an interesting watch

sbiddle

It's worth adding in the "random pricing" aspect also.

I booked a flight to CHC this week and booked the return with JQ purely for the LOLs after Air NZ hiked all their $49, $59 and $69 fares on multiple flights to $189 a few hours after I'd looked (but before I went to book) a week out from the travel.

I ended up booking NZ back yesterday morning for $49 same day when I needed to stay until later in the day.

I kept looking at things over the course of the week and pricing changed on a daily basis with $49, $59 and $69 flights appearing and then later in the day prices going back up to $189 for all flights. Next morning cheaper fares would reappear again.

codyc1515

I also experienced this recently a few times. I managed to do a fare hold on JQ (Business Hub, so free to hold!) at a price more than half of NZ in the event the NZ price didn't come back down. Air NZ dropped the price, then booked with them. Not sure what is the reason for the variations in price so much (travel agents holding fares? time of day?).

kyanar

Sure they weren't just drip feeding lower cost fare buckets into inventory?