cavemanzk

I've been thinking if the NZ/VA Tasman Alliance was too end, would it really be an bad thing or would we be better off.

I could see WLG/CHC getting hit by lack of frequency, we're as ex-AKL we might be better off if NZ if picks up the flights?

ex-AKL we would only lose:
AKL-MEL NZ7839 0630
AKL-SYD NZ7901 0800
AKL-BNE NZ7943 0645
AKL-BNE NZ7900 2000
AKL-OOL NZ7925 1230

With the lack of integration between NZ/VA probably wouldn't be too much of an loss. The fact you can't online check-in for VA Tasman flights, and pre-select frequent flyer seats on VA.

Surely NZ7839 and NZ7943 could both be replaced by an NZ A320 service, with NZ7901 probably isn't needed if NZ101 becomes an 787 or 777.

sbiddle

They both need each other. Despite boardroom toy throwing I can't see this agreement ending anytime soon - right now they're working on the extension.

dadig

NZ benefits are not reciprocated as well as VA - not quite sure the benefit other than for domestic transfers

waterwingsNZ

As has been stressed repeatedly in press releases, the sell off of Air New Zealand's holding in VA is unrelated to the Tasman agreement going forward. Both parties are currently working on the extension of this agreement as the current one expires in 2018.

Nickolash27

Agree. I don't think it would be an bad thing if they we're to break up. Would they fly from the Insertional or Intentional terminal?

cavemanzk

Agreed VA members get treated like NZ Gold on NZ Operated services, yet on VA the only benefit really is access to the NZ Lounge. While NZ members are meant to get seating benefits on VA, this has scaled back recently. VA seems to only allow NZ members to pre-allocate rows 15 onwards on the Tasman. Yet VA members get full access to Frequent Flyer Seating on NZ.

I would say VA needs NZ more, than NZ needs VA on the Tasman. Without NZ, VA becomes an once daily airline on most of its Tasman routes.

ruff00

I think it would be a bad thing.

ZQN to Australia... the Virgin product is much better. (Business on Virgin destroys Works Deluxe).

The scheduling of the Virgin direct flights is much better also.

cavemanzk

I guess when you don't have much choice ex-ZQN VA business looks good, ex-AKL its pretty poor for the price you pay. Usually about the same as on an NZ wide-body service.

sbiddle

TT yes, but Air NZ needs VA for Australian domestic connections which is one of the driving forces behind the whole agreement. Without this they'll immediately lose business to QF/JQ

At the end of the day we know they're not really doing this for the benefit of customers despite claiming it really is a win-win for customers. We know it's to manage capacity and avoid direct competition.

Air NZ do make some dumb decisions TT, and the impact of JQ has seen this worsen for some sectors such as WLG-MEL. Historically Air NZ have cut this from 7 days in Winter due to low demand, and this year they're scrapping the Sat morning flight which means it's not possible to fly over Sat AM and back Sun PM. Air NZ will lose at least a couple of weekend trips away from me over the next couple of months due to this as I simply won't go. For a weekend in August I've had to take a day off to fly early.

JQ/QF on the other hand keep the same schedule.

cavemanzk

I get the feeling that NZ doesn't really care about Intentional ex-WLG, and are slowly trying to reduce there loads so they can use that as the reason when they pull out.

Do the cost ex-WLG, make it really that much less appealing than ex-AKL? Despite all the additional capacity ex-AKL on other airlines, NZ continues to up capacity. Most days of the week AKL-SYD is get mutplie 777/787 services, and on certain days BNE/MEL are getting an afternoon 777/787 service.

Xiaotung

I assume down the road, VA would put Tigerair on trans Tasman services at which time it would create more tension between VA and NZ. Would NZ work with Tigerair (assuming no as it would require regulatory approval)? If Tigerair is the answer to VA, then they probably don't need NZ.

Kiwi Flyer

Routing via AKL is not always feasible - the early morning trans-Tasman flights out of Auckland leave too early to connect from elsewhere in NZ and the evening trans-Tasman arrivals into Auckland are too late to connect to anywhere else in NZ.

Even where it is feasible, routing via AKL usually adds 100 each way to the fare, which also makes it uncompetitive.

QF is happy. I fly them far more than I would otherwise.

sbiddle

What benefits would it deliver them to do this? The TT market is already incredibly competitive and I'm not sure the VA TT CASK figures could really be that much different to VA who are pretty much a LCC in this market now.

We've seen TT pricing head up again in the past year but much of that has been careful management of pricing by Air NZ - try and get a special fare return flight on a weekend ex Wellington and you'll find this is impossible.

The biggest issue with TT is still the tax. ~$180 in tax for a return flight is excessive IMHO.