Blackcloud

They do not have the capability.
Seats especially the premium ones are very complicated pieces of kit. NZ can replace components and install them but they are not able to assemble them, probably voids warranties if they did.
There has been issues with all seat manufacturers' production capacity for a number of years, as aircraft manufacturing went through the roof and airlines also did midlife refreshes and a Japanese manufacturer got into trouble...., which explains why it takes airlines along time to do cabin refits.

evanaggie

I'm not sure why people dislike the spaceseat so much.

I found the amount of room you get when traveling as a pair in the center to be insanely generous. There is so much room in the middle wedge and you can place things underneath it or in between. The only downside that people mention is being able to prop up your feet.

I had a harder time sleeping in QF744 in the lay flat biz class than I did in the spaceseat. Perhaps that was just a bad day for my sleep cycle.

drajknox

Related article

http://www.ausbt.com.au/air-new-zeal...nomy-spaceseat

Luxon quoted as saying decision by end 2016.

sbiddle

The decision has already been made. I don't know why they don't just come out and say it.

Trumpkin

Reading the article it is very clear what the decision will be, plus of course the focus on pure profit.

libertyuk

Meanwhile NZ knows it can command a mild premium in PE on the Spaceseat LHR-LAX. When the 77Ws are refurbished, presumably there will be spin about the new IFE system and the new PE seats will be sold as offering leg rests and being an improvement on the product seen on 77Es and 789s.

The only question is timing, the opportunity to pull out 77Ws comes when there are enough 789s to enable 77Es to make up the difference which is probably mid 2017. NZ7/8 can go 77E on alternate days with UA starting on the route until the 77Ws are all refurbished.

Kamadan

It really is a shame if the SpaceSeat goes (and seems like that's a foregone conclusion).

I actually just did a booking earlier tonight to the States near end of the year, and picked connecting at SFO rather than IAH onwards to ORD (ticket price in the end was the same).

Even though both have A inventory for Y->PE upgrade to clear immediately, picked SFO simply because it's a 77W with SpaceSeat, despite the fact it's a ~45mins longer journey overall incl. connection.

(Didn't choose LAX as there were no A inventory, plus it's a nightmare to connect... again, prices were the same)

GeorgieNZ

I know Spaceseat appears (at least in these pages) as a polarising product, but when I compare a Spaceseat cabin in terms of the whole product and ambience, with the new 772 cabins, the 772 doesn't come close. Would you rather, as in the 773, have a centre Space Seat, with no one next to you, within your own personal space with no other seat reclining into you - or would you rather be in a row of 4 seats which really do feel like other airlines 'economy plus'.

Yes, Spaceseat economics are questioned, but the product as a whole really feels like a massively premium offering from the moment you step into the cabin.

drajknox

Completely agree

Fast6

Agreed, and in my opinion, that's the only way they can justify charging the huge premium for PE.

The economics have to, I hope, go beyond how many seats they can stuff in. If there's not a pricing adjustment, that would be pretty disappointing.

I think the biggest downside is that the Spaceseat is indeed something unique, and scrapping that in favor of Economy Plus and a few more dollars seems regrettable. Sure seems shortsighted.

sbiddle

I completely agree as well.

I reserve my judgement on the new PE seat as I've yet to actually fly in it, but I'm taking one for the team and flying in one to HKG next week just to experience it. I've booked BP back to compensate.

When Air NZ first launched PE in the 77R it was at roughly 1.5x the economy
price. The Spaceseat saw that go up to roughly 2x the economy price.

If you look at seat maps Air NZ would probably only fit 110 rows (100) economy seats into the same space used by 42 Spaceseats. It's hard to know how many new PE seats they could fit in the same space but I'd pick somewhere around 50 minimum - with possibly 52 or 54.

At the end of the day I don't see any way you could argue this is anything but a revenue grab. Yes there are people who don't like the Spaceseat, but the exact same thing can be said about the BP seat. In many ways that's the current VS herringbone is a dated product, but I can't see them swapping that out because the seat cost is dirt cheap compared to what they'd have to pay for something new like a BE Super Diamond.

robbau

All of the promo pictures when they win best PE product are of the Spaceseat.

They won't be able to do that when they are gone.

Question is, can they still win the best PE awards with the recliner product?

Seems the only difference with other airlines is up to 4 inches of extra pitch @ 42".

I haven't flown PE with any other carrier. How does the NZ product compare?

dadig

Unlikely considering the new PE is a near replica of CX

mad_atta

Extremely well, I would say. In my view, NZ and QF are the clear global leaders in PE product, with other honourable mentions going to TK and probably JL's new product.

NZ and QF seem to be alone in treating PE as a more thoroughly premium product, ie almost every part of the experience is fairly significantly upgraded over economy (eg pseudo business class meals, much more personalised service) rather than the original PE model whereby the main difference is just a better seat and more personal space. NZ/QF are also the industry leaders on seat pitch (the outlier is TK with 46" pitch, but that's being phased out and the seat design squanders some of its space advantage anyway, eg by strangely limited recline).

VA has had to upgrade its PE product with significantly more pitch to be more competitive, so it will be interesting to see how that measures up. As for the others, having done a fair bit of research on (though not actually flown) the other Asian and European airlines' products, it's my perception that they offer a much more 'mid-market' PE offering, where the 'premium' elements are very carefully capped to avoid cannibalising business class sales.

mad_atta

Yes the base seat model is the same but NZ's version has significantly more pitch and recline. NZ's soft product for PE is way ahead of Cathay's too.