Am I expecting too much from BP?
Jan 30, 2015, 11:26 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2015
Programs: NZ GE
Posts: 1
Am I expecting too much from BP?
I've flown six long haul segments in BP in the last six weeks, to both Asia and North America. A combination of 789 and 77W aircraft.
The hard product is very good. The seat on the 789 is definitely narrower than on the 77W, and the little step up to the seat is odd, but otherwise it's a good product. The main issue I have with it is the complete disregard for passengers wanting to look out the windows, but nothing can easily be done about that for obvious reasons.
The soft product is where I'm less impressed. Aside from one flight which was very good, which I would put down to a proactive purser (a South African lady), the food and service was generally rather 'meh'. Not bad per se, just mediocre. The 789 flights were generally better than those on the 77W, although the best flight was on the bigger plane.
Areas where I felt things could stand improvement include:
- drink refills were essentially nonexistent without making a point of asking;
- with a few exceptions, rather distant FAs who seemed to want to disappear as quickly as possible;
- variable food, some good, some ok, some plain bad;
- a general lack of charm....the little things that can make a long flight more pleasant.
Am I being too picky? Are these kind of things only to be expected in a true first class? Should I shut up and just enjoy the seat?
The hard product is very good. The seat on the 789 is definitely narrower than on the 77W, and the little step up to the seat is odd, but otherwise it's a good product. The main issue I have with it is the complete disregard for passengers wanting to look out the windows, but nothing can easily be done about that for obvious reasons.
The soft product is where I'm less impressed. Aside from one flight which was very good, which I would put down to a proactive purser (a South African lady), the food and service was generally rather 'meh'. Not bad per se, just mediocre. The 789 flights were generally better than those on the 77W, although the best flight was on the bigger plane.
Areas where I felt things could stand improvement include:
- drink refills were essentially nonexistent without making a point of asking;
- with a few exceptions, rather distant FAs who seemed to want to disappear as quickly as possible;
- variable food, some good, some ok, some plain bad;
- a general lack of charm....the little things that can make a long flight more pleasant.
Am I being too picky? Are these kind of things only to be expected in a true first class? Should I shut up and just enjoy the seat?
Jan 31, 2015, 12:11 am
#2
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: New Zealand (most of the time)
Programs: Air NZ Elite *G, Honors Gold, IHG Platinum Elite
Posts: 6,115
In 3 my 763 BP flights in the past year or so I found the crew to all be very average. The 763 crew are also on the 789. If I'm flying economy I expect to have to wait ages for my empty tray to be taken away. I don't expect a 30 min wait when I'm up the front of the plane.
The long haul 777 crews on the other hand have been a completely different experience, with continual drinks on offer and fantastic service in both PE and BP.
The long haul 777 crews on the other hand have been a completely different experience, with continual drinks on offer and fantastic service in both PE and BP.
Jan 31, 2015, 2:28 pm
#3
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: NZ
Programs: NZ*E, QF-G, EK-P
Posts: 605
16 LH sectors in Business Premier on 777 and 4 on 787 in last year.
A couple were poor - both ex-LAX with Auckland based crews on 777 - Felt like I was being ignored or any request a bother.
The other flights I have no complaints at all. Great, friendly efficient service. But when it was bad it was dire - so think NZ do suffer from some consistency problems across the fleet on soft product and is a bit variable. But no more so than other airlines IMO
I also did a number of other sectors in Business with other airlines. EK and Cathay were really subservient and I absolutely hate that - but some might want and expect it. That's partly why I like the QF and NZ crews - they mostly interact in a human polite way but are not subservient. Clearly it's a balance in business and f - as I say I personally hate insipid subservience but do expect professional polite attentiveness. My limited first experiences have left me thinking NZ soft product in BP is better than QF or BA F - but my sample size is small and I imagine it's crew dependent as well.
BCE
A couple were poor - both ex-LAX with Auckland based crews on 777 - Felt like I was being ignored or any request a bother.
The other flights I have no complaints at all. Great, friendly efficient service. But when it was bad it was dire - so think NZ do suffer from some consistency problems across the fleet on soft product and is a bit variable. But no more so than other airlines IMO
I also did a number of other sectors in Business with other airlines. EK and Cathay were really subservient and I absolutely hate that - but some might want and expect it. That's partly why I like the QF and NZ crews - they mostly interact in a human polite way but are not subservient. Clearly it's a balance in business and f - as I say I personally hate insipid subservience but do expect professional polite attentiveness. My limited first experiences have left me thinking NZ soft product in BP is better than QF or BA F - but my sample size is small and I imagine it's crew dependent as well.
BCE
Jan 31, 2015, 5:38 pm
#4
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 646
Jan 31, 2015, 6:39 pm
#5
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: SYD
Programs: Too many golds, no plat: OZ*G, AC*G, NZ*G, VA Gold, QF Gold, HH Gold, Bonvoy Gold
Posts: 5,350
I haven't been on any longhaul NZ flights in the last year, but in the many leading up to that point I have never known them to be anything other than generous and proactive with the booze. Almost to a fault, in fact.
Other aspects have been more variable, in particular the quality of the food itself in the last few years, but for me it's rare that I step off an NZ longhaul disappointed in the service.
But to answer your question: no I don't think you're expecting too much. I do think that at times you need to be realistic about the crew's workload - e.g. on a flight filled with capacity, rushing to get a supper service done so people can sleep or to serve breakfast just before landing - but vanishing FAs who are reluctant to provide service is inexcusable.
Other aspects have been more variable, in particular the quality of the food itself in the last few years, but for me it's rare that I step off an NZ longhaul disappointed in the service.
But to answer your question: no I don't think you're expecting too much. I do think that at times you need to be realistic about the crew's workload - e.g. on a flight filled with capacity, rushing to get a supper service done so people can sleep or to serve breakfast just before landing - but vanishing FAs who are reluctant to provide service is inexcusable.
Jan 31, 2015, 8:06 pm
#6
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: New Zealand
Programs: NZ Elite, QF Platinum (LTS), VA Platinum
Posts: 1,672
""The hard product is very good. The seat on the 789 is definitely narrower than on the 77W, and the little step up to the seat is odd, but otherwise it's a good product. The main issue I have with it is the complete disregard for passengers wanting to look out the windows, but nothing can easily be done about that for obvious reasons.""
Someone else pointed out that a lot of long haul flights are over water for NZ so not much to see out the window which is a good point. I do enjoy the views for take off and landing though but that's only a few minutes really. I also enjoy the sense of privacy in the herringbone layout so if you are doing some work I don't feel like anyone is looking over my shoulder ( not that it's riveting or top secret!). Something you would maybe have to pay first class for on another carrier.
""The soft product is where I'm less impressed. Aside from one flight which was very good, which I would put down to a proactive purser (a South African lady), the food and service was generally rather 'meh'.
Areas where I felt things could stand improvement include:
- drink refills were essentially nonexistent without making a point of asking;
- with a few exceptions, rather distant FAs who seemed to want to disappear as quickly as possible;
- variable food, some good, some ok, some plain bad;
- a general lack of charm....the little things that can make a long flight more pleasant. ""
I'm probably not that picky about the service but if I felt I wanted more drinks I would ask. It might be a slight inconvenience but only slight.....nothing worth downgrading to PE over.
Distant FAs?? Charm?? I think at the end of the day people are people and in any job including service and hospitality you will get variability. Despite it being someone's job I look at it like A) I don't know what jobs they're attending to in the back, b) there are obvious differences in personality in people which is not changeable and were they to start "forcing" it, then it would come across as being fake and I would LOATHE for that to happen. I like the NZ down to earth feel. C) if you want to talk to them more, then do! Be the initiator! D) I think that it's impossible to tell what is going on in that persons life eg..I got burgled the other day for the first time and wasn't that productive at work or quick thinking. In my job I can tell people about that but in service industries it's not really something you openly offer to the customer! This last one is a big one for me....they have their lives too and as long as I'm not being treated disrespectfully and the job is getting done, I'm all good.
I'm also the sort of person who prefers to make their own bed on the flight though rather than have the FA do it. Although if I've nipped off to the loo after dinner sometimes they're quick and it's all done. I view it as something to do during a time where I otherwise park my butt for several hours!
Food is food. I realise airlines are going for "the restaurant in the sky" but I've been underwhelmed by some of the so called top notch restaurants also from time to time (and probably more so by my own cooking!
). I don't really book BP for the food either and at times I would prefer to eat in the lounge then jump on board & sleep although if the lounge food prior is crap then......you stay awake. The service is a bit drawn out and sometimes I think I'd rather just the one tray of food then off to sleep but all in all it's unfortunately probably better than my own cooking. Where are you setting the benchmark??Opinions obviously vary from person to person so would be interesting to compare what the remaining pax think. You know they have places to feedback to if you feel strongly about this. I guess changes occur from feedback and they don't from someone like me who is generally content (although I did feedback once over some issues but funnily enough they were already in the pipeline for change!)
""Am I being too picky? Are these kind of things only to be expected in a true first class? Should I shut up and just enjoy the seat?
Everyone has different expectations. I think mine are lower or more easy going?
Apologies I'm not sure how to do consecutive quotes so some of my feedback may land within the quotes.
Feb 1, 2015, 5:02 am
#7
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: East Midlands UK
Programs: BAEC, Emirates Skywards, Etihad Guest & HiltonHHonors.
Posts: 211
I flew CX to AKL in J class last November and got to sample BP to HKG in December on Z-OKA , a refitted 777.
I felt there wasn't any privacy in the BP seat and not much storage space around it either. Trying to look out of the window, meant craning your neck! The overhead bin, though was plenty big enough.
The crew out of AKL was attentive and friendly and the food, good. The same could be said for the CX crew and the service.
I felt, however that the CX seat was a lot better.
Cypress
I felt there wasn't any privacy in the BP seat and not much storage space around it either. Trying to look out of the window, meant craning your neck! The overhead bin, though was plenty big enough.
The crew out of AKL was attentive and friendly and the food, good. The same could be said for the CX crew and the service.
I felt, however that the CX seat was a lot better.
Cypress
Feb 1, 2015, 4:05 pm
#8
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Programs: NZ Elite; QF Platinum; CZ Gold; MU Platinum; Marriott Titanium; Accor Platinum
Posts: 1,467
For me the best thing Air NZ has going for it is the seat. Often its one of the most expensive options, EK for example often have deals which work out quite a bit cheaper than Air NZ
Agreed out of Christchurch their business class is still angled lie flat but personally the soft product is in my view much better. And of course others are catching up fast with fully lie flat and all seats aisle access, so soon that aspect of NZ will be nothing special.
Take EK, real amenity kits, real champagne in lounge and pre takeoff, better kids packs, better IFE, and personally I think the service can be very genuine and is not despite some other posts fake. EK has a tremendously international crew so you get all sorts!
And of course terrible FFP on Air NZ. Reach Platinum on Qantas and you can access the AWESOME First lounge in Sydney.
Agreed out of Christchurch their business class is still angled lie flat but personally the soft product is in my view much better. And of course others are catching up fast with fully lie flat and all seats aisle access, so soon that aspect of NZ will be nothing special.
Take EK, real amenity kits, real champagne in lounge and pre takeoff, better kids packs, better IFE, and personally I think the service can be very genuine and is not despite some other posts fake. EK has a tremendously international crew so you get all sorts!
And of course terrible FFP on Air NZ. Reach Platinum on Qantas and you can access the AWESOME First lounge in Sydney.
Feb 14, 2015, 1:59 am
#9
Join Date: May 2010
Location: FSD
Programs: BAEC, Delta SkyPesos, VS FC, SQ KF, AA, HHonors
Posts: 1,884
I will echo the comments made here.
The hard product is pretty damn good, although I find it annoying being (semi)dependent on the crew to convert the seat into a bed.
The crew really does a disappearing act. I am not sure if this is normal, or if I had bad luck on my AKL-HKG return. For the prices that NZ asks for, a check every hour to top off wine or soda isn't exactly asking the moon.
The catering is...interesting. The food was cooked correctly, but it didn't impress me. I had a coconut fish curry....where the curry sauce (very small amount) was drizzled over a fillet of baked fish. That was disappointing, as I was expecting...well...a curry.
The AKL lounge is...meh by the standards of significant city, and a little sad for the main hub.
The hard product is pretty damn good, although I find it annoying being (semi)dependent on the crew to convert the seat into a bed.
The crew really does a disappearing act. I am not sure if this is normal, or if I had bad luck on my AKL-HKG return. For the prices that NZ asks for, a check every hour to top off wine or soda isn't exactly asking the moon.
The catering is...interesting. The food was cooked correctly, but it didn't impress me. I had a coconut fish curry....where the curry sauce (very small amount) was drizzled over a fillet of baked fish. That was disappointing, as I was expecting...well...a curry.
The AKL lounge is...meh by the standards of significant city, and a little sad for the main hub.
Feb 15, 2015, 2:17 pm
#10
Join Date: Dec 2014
Programs: NZ*Elite *G, QF*G, SPG*Platinum, Accor*Platinum, Hilton*Gold
Posts: 1,006
Feb 15, 2015, 2:35 pm
#11
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: New Zealand (most of the time)
Programs: Air NZ Elite *G, Honors Gold, IHG Platinum Elite
Posts: 6,115
While the lounge has got into a tired state, and some of the reasons were delays by Air NZ in a planned refurb, there were then also significant delays once they decided to opt for an entirely new lounge instead.
Feb 15, 2015, 6:38 pm
#12
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Auckland
Programs: NZ*E
Posts: 186
Having just had the 'pleasure' of visiting a variety of United Clubs (including both LAX T7 ones) I think we should count ourselves lucky that they haven't taken a look there for some inspiration....
While I agree AKL isn't great (certainly compared to the newer lounges like CHC Domestic), at least they're doing something about it - I'm looking forward to the new lounges in both AKL and SYD.
While I agree AKL isn't great (certainly compared to the newer lounges like CHC Domestic), at least they're doing something about it - I'm looking forward to the new lounges in both AKL and SYD.
Feb 15, 2015, 6:51 pm
#13
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: SEA
Programs: NZ Elite (*G)
Posts: 657
Lounges and in-flight service could be much, much worse. All you have to do is fly United or visit the United Clubs for evidence. I typically fly United to make my connections to NZ for my long-haul flights (I refuse to fly United internationally) and the difference between the airlines is very noticeable.
Feb 15, 2015, 7:03 pm
#14
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Usually Auckland, NZ
Programs: NZ Elite (*G), QF S (OWR), UA 0.14MM
Posts: 690
That was last September (2014) when I transit at LAX to T7 after NZ1 from LHR.
Having also visited various United Clubs at BOS, ORD, SEA, SFO (note: mainland US ones only)... none comes close to even the "crappy" Koru clubs we have back home. Then again, that's not even a fair comparison.
If only United models ALL their lounges after the superb LHR T2 offering, but that's just wishful thinking (United Club LHR T2 is on a completely different planet altogether, dare I say better than Koru lounge here at home).
Feb 15, 2015, 7:46 pm
#15
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Programs: NZ Elite; QF Platinum; CZ Gold; MU Platinum; Marriott Titanium; Accor Platinum
Posts: 1,467
Yes.
Lounges and in-flight service could be much, much worse. All you have to do is fly United or visit the United Clubs for evidence. I typically fly United to make my connections to NZ for my long-haul flights (I refuse to fly United internationally) and the difference between the airlines is very noticeable.
Lounges and in-flight service could be much, much worse. All you have to do is fly United or visit the United Clubs for evidence. I typically fly United to make my connections to NZ for my long-haul flights (I refuse to fly United internationally) and the difference between the airlines is very noticeable.
Their direct premium competitors are CX, SQ, EK, QF
In my view all better overall, and usually cheaper in J. And much better routes.