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Old Mar 23, 12, 3:41 pm   #1
 
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Opportunity knocks - AR to withdraw from NZ market?

***Rumour so far***

On another website it has been reported that from 30 June AR will change their routing to EZE-AKL-SYD-EZE with AKL as a tech stop only. If this is verified is there any hope that NZ will actually listen to opportunity banging on their door ?

Just checked the AR website, no official information, but also no availability on the AKL-EZE route after 1 July.

Last edited by kiwiandrew; Mar 23, 12 at 3:43 pm. Reason: checked AR website
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Old Mar 23, 12, 3:42 pm   #2
 
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Where is the profit in this alleged opportunity?
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Old Mar 23, 12, 3:56 pm   #3
 
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Originally Posted by ntddevsys View Post
Where is the profit in this alleged opportunity?
Supposedly the Australia- Argentina market is one of AR's few profitable routes ( no, I cannot prove this) . With QF abandoning BUE completely and AR offering a crap product ( and only able to offer it non-stop in one direction) I could imagine that a 2 to 3 times weekly flight timed to fit connections from SYD/BNE/MEL would be worth a feasibility study. I accept that the Argentinian economy is a drawback, as is the lack of onward connections from EZE as most regional flights have shifted to AEP, nonetheless, if route planners at NZ do not at least look at this route to see whether it makes sense they would be negligent.
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Old Mar 23, 12, 11:39 pm   #4
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ntddevsys View Post
Where is the profit in this alleged opportunity?
Totally agree with you.
QF is happy to withdrawal because the Argentine authorities have been !@#$ing around AR competitors with airport relocations and not allowing codeshares etc.
Why NZ would send one of their limited 777s to EZE is just not understandable in the current environment.
Also why would AR change this routing in the first place?
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Old Mar 24, 12, 12:05 am   #5
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwiandrew View Post
Supposedly the Australia- Argentina market is one of AR's few profitable routes ( no, I cannot prove this) . With QF abandoning BUE completely and AR offering a crap product ( and only able to offer it non-stop in one direction) I could imagine that a 2 to 3 times weekly flight timed to fit connections from SYD/BNE/MEL would be worth a feasibility study. I accept that the Argentinian economy is a drawback, as is the lack of onward connections from EZE as most regional flights have shifted to AEP, nonetheless, if route planners at NZ do not at least look at this route to see whether it makes sense they would be negligent.
Serious question: What is the drawback of the Argentinian economy? I was there for an extended period until about a month ago.

Btw, I've also worked extensively for many years in NZ, one of my favorite countries on the planet, so this is not a topic of just idle interest to me.

:waves hello to that great country of NZ which I love tremendously, whose so many people I miss even more: [or however one'd communicated that in proper grammar ]
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Old Mar 24, 12, 12:20 am   #6
 
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Originally Posted by JDeux View Post
Serious question: What is the drawback of the Argentinian economy?
It looks as though I owe Argentina an apology, I had thought that they were currently an even bigger basket case than New Zealand is, however, after reading your post I just did a bit of googling and things look a lot better there than I had assumed.
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Old Mar 24, 12, 12:45 am   #7
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwiandrew View Post
It looks as though I owe Argentina an apology, I had thought that they were currently an even bigger basket case than New Zealand is, however, after reading your post I just did a bit of googling and things look a lot better there than I had assumed.
No worries; as an aside considering the prices in Argentina [another country which I absolutely love, so not meaning to be harsh to it], the median per-capita income, and the value of the currency, I'm not sure that "basket case" is too far off...

I only responded b/c I absolutely believe in your initial sentiment and (granted not knowing anything about crooked airport reallocations or not allowing codeshares, which would obv alter the $s) that any airline exec who could not make a Australia-NZ-EZE (note I don't have a clue on AEP) work, should be... ermm... "shot" prob is not a phrase I should use in fine int'l company.. If it takes more pr $ of how wonderful a place Argentina is, noting the wonderful accessibility from NZ, $o be it... ... any ba$ket case scenario for Arg would only make it more compelling for AU/NZ...
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Old Mar 24, 12, 2:27 am   #8
 
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South America is complicated just now, largely because of the LAN-TAM alliance question - see HERE
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Old Mar 24, 12, 6:00 am   #9
 
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if NZ flew EZE - AKL what would the flight time be? It would open another option for passengers from JNB - New Zealand.

Currently JNB - EZE is quite full and seats in both cabins can be difficult to get.

I would like to see SA or NZ flying direct JNB-AKL distance is only 200 Nautical miles further than JNB-PEK and shorter than JNB-JFK which SAA flies daily, so equipment wise it should be easily possible.

With so many Saffa's living in NZ, family visiting them and they visiting 'home' I would suspect there could be a market.

Also it gives them two flights to the region, without influencing the duopoly they have with QF, despite this ending soon.
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Old Mar 26, 12, 10:39 am   #10
 
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There is actually an opportunity here for AKL to act as a hub connecting South America to certain South East Asian destinations, e.g. HKG. Going via AKL would be 500-1000nm shorter than existing routings via Europe or North America.

NZ have been looking seriously at South America for a while. The problem is, until the 787 arrives, they don't really have the aircraft to fly it. I don't think the 772 can fly AKL-EZE economically (yet), due to ETOPS restrictions. And I couldn't see them using a 747.
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Old Mar 26, 12, 10:43 am   #11
 
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Originally Posted by SAWorldVoyager View Post
if NZ flew EZE - AKL what would the flight time be? It would open another option for passengers from JNB - New Zealand.
JNB-AKL via EZE is much further than going via Australia. Total flight time would be over 24 hours.

Quote:
I would like to see SA or NZ flying direct JNB-AKL distance is only 200 Nautical miles further than JNB-PEK and shorter than JNB-JFK which SAA flies daily, so equipment wise it should be easily possible.
Not possible with twin-engine aircraft due to ETOPS.
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Old Mar 26, 12, 12:12 pm   #12
 
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Originally Posted by Reason077 View Post

Not possible with twin-engine aircraft due to ETOPS.
Thankfully SAA only operate A340-200, A340-300 and A340-600 on longhauls, so ETOPS doesnt apply.

The 6x A330's they operate is kept for mainly for LHR.

When I was at airbus last year I specifically questioned them on JNB-AKL and they said A350 will definitely be able to fly the route, even with ETOPS limitations, as they anticipate a minimum worst case scenario rating of ETOPS-350.
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Old Mar 26, 12, 6:03 pm   #13
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reason077 View Post
There is actually an opportunity here for AKL to act as a hub connecting South America to certain South East Asian destinations, e.g. HKG. Going via AKL would be 500-1000nm shorter than existing routings via Europe or North America.

NZ have been looking seriously at South America for a while. The problem is, until the 787 arrives, they don't really have the aircraft to fly it. I don't think the 772 can fly AKL-EZE economically (yet), due to ETOPS restrictions. And I couldn't see them using a 747.
I wonder what plane they're using for the one-off flight to Argentina for the All Blacks game?

I agree we'd be a good transit point, I know we have visa-free access to a lot of South American countries, I presume this is reciprocal?
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Old Mar 26, 12, 6:17 pm   #14
 
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Originally Posted by Shazzadude View Post
I wonder what plane they're using for the one-off flight to Argentina for the All Blacks game?
It will be the all black 77W.
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