Last seat redemption for F award on AF

Old Feb 6, 2014, 12:14 am
  #16  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Accor 25+ Badge
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life/Club2000 Ultimate, Accor ALL Diamond
Posts: 21,794
Originally Posted by irishguy28
If by "borrow" you mean having someone give you their Flying Blue login details, then I think you are on to a non-starter. Sharing of login details is not allowed and never a good idea. You would have to be the one to take the risk (not the "volunteer") and hope that whoever you transferred your hundreds of thousands of Amex MR points to would book the ticket that you wanted in your name.

But this is all rather academic. Very few of us think that there will ever be a redemption F seat available again for this particular flight. If you cancel your revenue booking, you probably will not end up travelling at all on this flight (unless you later buy the same seat back at a much higher price).
Originally Posted by orbitmic
Good summary! ^
+1
Goldorak is offline  
Old Feb 10, 2014, 9:47 am
  #17  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Programs: Delta Silver, HH Gold, Accor Gold, IHG Platinum
Posts: 5,338
Apparently, AF has decided to cancel all flights in F booked by non-Elite members. PAX are not happy. http://boardingarea.com/onemileatati...award-tickets/
KLflyerRalph is offline  
Old Feb 10, 2014, 9:59 am
  #18  
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere between 0 and 13,000 metres high
Programs: AF/KL Life Plat, BA GGL+GfL, ALL Plat, Hilton Diam, Marriott Gold, blablablah, etc
Posts: 30,353
Originally Posted by KLflyerRalph
Apparently, AF has decided to cancel all flights in F booked by non-Elite members. PAX are not happy. http://boardingarea.com/onemileatati...award-tickets/
Typical Flying Blue to make passengers pay the price of their own incompetence. Sure, those passengers should not have been able to book, but once FB did it, they should have bitten the bullet and accept to own up to their mistake. 1500 miles is ridiculous compensation too.

That said, what is an "award booking service"??? Don't tell me some people charge money to book award seats? It sounds most dodgy to me.
orbitmic is offline  
Old Feb 10, 2014, 10:14 am
  #19  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,232
What counts - when booked or when traveled ?

What happens in the following scenario - I am ELITE, book an F class award then lose my elite status after the the qualifying year ends. Technically, I booked while an ELITE but will travel as a NON-ELITE.
?????
Mister Nice is offline  
Old Feb 10, 2014, 10:30 am
  #20  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: GLA
Programs: AF/KL FB Plat 4L, VA Vel Silver, BA EC, LH M&M
Posts: 1,825
I would not expect a problem in this case. Otherwise this would mean that honouring a ticket would be conditional on the passenger achieving a certain amount of level miles. Not even AF would come up with such a weird idea.
cityflyer369 is offline  
Old Feb 10, 2014, 11:09 am
  #21  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: The World! Home Base = DCA/IAD
Programs: HHonors, Hyatt GP, Marriott, Varying Levels w/ UA /AF /DL /SQ /AA
Posts: 2,664
Originally Posted by orbitmic
...what is an "award booking service"??? Don't tell me some people charge money to book award seats? It sounds most dodgy to me.
Lucky/Ben (the blogger at One Mile at a Time) has a service whereby he or one of his employees will book awards for people. I'm not sure what all the prices are for all the various services that exist (there are ~5-10 seemingly reputable people/companies doing this). They exist mostly for people too busy or too impatient to book themselves. I've used the services a couple of times, most recently with Ben's company, and it was $300 to book two first *A award tickets using United miles. I was thrilled to be able to pay experts to do this for me, since I had no time to research this myself (I do have the tools, KVS and expertflyer.com, but not the time for this one), and UA gutted the program for using partner miles (so if you wanted to fly a good airline using UA points, the mileage price went up substantially on 1 February, so time was of the essence in getting this done), so it was great that I could offload this research.

Not dodgy at all. Also, if they don't find what you're looking for, you don't pay anything.

Inside Flyer (the paper magazine, not sure about whether or not they had it online) recently had a rundown of some of the offerings out there, along with the prices. Something to look into if time is tight (whether you're busy or coming up to a deadline) and if the prices work for you.
TravelinWilly is online now  
Old Feb 10, 2014, 2:48 pm
  #22  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 14,352
Originally Posted by cityflyer369
Not even AF would come up with such a weird idea.
I guess we shall have to blame you for putting that idea into their heads, then!

Johan
johan rebel is offline  
Old Feb 10, 2014, 2:50 pm
  #23  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,550
Originally Posted by TravelinWilly
Not dodgy at all. Also, if they don't find what you're looking for, you don't pay anything.
So who exactly does the booking? Are you expected to give your FFP login details to these people?
irishguy28 is offline  
Old Feb 11, 2014, 12:02 am
  #24  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong, France
Programs: FB , BA Gold
Posts: 15,495
It could be that a FB lurker read this thread and AF decided to close the loophole caused by the poor training of their FB phone agents.
brunos is offline  
Old Feb 11, 2014, 11:18 am
  #25  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: The World! Home Base = DCA/IAD
Programs: HHonors, Hyatt GP, Marriott, Varying Levels w/ UA /AF /DL /SQ /AA
Posts: 2,664
Originally Posted by irishguy28
So who exactly does the booking? Are you expected to give your FFP login details to these people?
The couple of times I've used services, yes, I provided my login ID and PW to the agents. This is definitely not a service to use if that makes you feel uncomfortable, but in the case of Ben, he has a reputation to uphold, and I trust him and his agents so I had no problem.

Then again, some people also use financial apps like Mint and Check (formerly PageOnce), which require IDs and PWs for banking details and the like, so I suppose it really comes down to who people feel they can trust.

With the award services, one could probably get the award flight information and book it themselves, but I don't know that for sure, you'd have to ask the various booking services.

Last edited by TravelinWilly; Feb 11, 2014 at 4:57 pm Reason: Edited to CMA. :)
TravelinWilly is online now  
Old Feb 11, 2014, 3:33 pm
  #26  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,550
In Europe, giving away your banking passwords would make you solely liable for the consequences if any fraudulent transactions appeared on your account.

Whatever about the US, I can't imagine many European FFPs being enthusiastic about their members sharing login details with third parties.
irishguy28 is offline  
Old Feb 11, 2014, 4:43 pm
  #27  
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere between 0 and 13,000 metres high
Programs: AF/KL Life Plat, BA GGL+GfL, ALL Plat, Hilton Diam, Marriott Gold, blablablah, etc
Posts: 30,353
Originally Posted by irishguy28
In Europe, giving away your banking passwords would make you solely liable for the consequences if any fraudulent transactions appeared on your account.

Whatever about the US, I can't imagine many European FFPs being enthusiastic about their members sharing login details with third parties.
It's actually formally in breach of FB T&C:

1.3.8 Any person whose membership application has been accepted by the Company shall obtain an individual account, membership number and a PIN allowing access to the Internet and any other services described in the FB Communication. The membership number will be required for any inquiry concerning the account. The PIN will always be communicated to the Member and only to the Member. The Member is responsible for the usage of his PIN and shall not disclose the PIN to any third party.

Several other European FFPs have similar clauses.
orbitmic is offline  
Old Feb 11, 2014, 5:12 pm
  #28  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: The World! Home Base = DCA/IAD
Programs: HHonors, Hyatt GP, Marriott, Varying Levels w/ UA /AF /DL /SQ /AA
Posts: 2,664
Okay, I'm now taking this just about as far OT as I can go, apologies to FB members, these are the last comments I'll make on this matter on this board... But in my defense, it all started innocently.

Originally Posted by irishguy28
In Europe, giving away your banking passwords would make you solely liable for the consequences if any fraudulent transactions appeared on your account.

Whatever about the US, I can't imagine many European FFPs being enthusiastic about their members sharing login details with third parties.
Interestingly, in the USA United, American, and Delta all, have enjoined aggregating websites (e.g., awardwallet.com, amongst others, who allow for "one stop shopping" of mileage balances, status levels, etc. for airlines, hotels, rental car companies, credit cards, etc.) from scraping their systems for data, meaning that subscribers to those various sites could no longer rely on mileage updates through the use of such sites. One of the sites came up with a workaround for United (they had members create email accounts that are associated with the website, and then go to ual.com and change the email on file to the new site email, so once a month when UA sends out balance emails, the site will update member accounts).

American relented with awardwallet.com, and my understanding is that now they allow it, so they know that people are putting in their AA FF#s and PWs. And I suspect that they're okay with it, presumably after looking at the site's policies for storing data, encryption, etc. I can't prove it, though, as I really don't have a clue as to how any of those sites really work.

I would think that European carriers could just as easily stop third party sites from such activity if they wanted to, and the fact that they haven't stopped them leads me to suspect that they're okay with it. And the same would go for financial institutions that allow mint.com etc. to aggregate financial data. It is within their power to curtail such use.

Originally Posted by orbitmic
It's actually formally in breach of FB T&C:

1.3.8 Any person whose membership application has been accepted by the Company shall obtain an individual account, membership number and a PIN allowing access to the Internet and any other services described in the FB Communication. The membership number will be required for any inquiry concerning the account. The PIN will always be communicated to the Member and only to the Member. The Member is responsible for the usage of his PIN and shall not disclose the PIN to any third party.

Several other European FFPs have similar clauses.
Interestingly, AF's FB is available on awardwallet.com, amongst other aggregating sites (I just looked, they list out who's supported), so either they're not aware of it, or they tacitly approve of it, T&C wording (which is often times there as a broad protection for the FFP) to the contrary or not. Lufthansa and BA and SQ and TG and QF (and the list is quite long...) are also "participants" in such sites. I'm not saying that's good, I'm just saying what is.

Okay, back to our regularly-scheduled programming...
TravelinWilly is online now  
Old Feb 12, 2014, 2:55 am
  #29  
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere between 0 and 13,000 metres high
Programs: AF/KL Life Plat, BA GGL+GfL, ALL Plat, Hilton Diam, Marriott Gold, blablablah, etc
Posts: 30,353
Originally Posted by TravelinWilly
Okay, I'm now taking this just about as far OT as I can go, apologies to FB members, these are the last comments I'll make on this matter on this board... But in my defense, it all started innocently.


Interestingly, in the USA United, American, and Delta all, have enjoined aggregating websites (e.g., awardwallet.com, amongst others, who allow for "one stop shopping" of mileage balances, status levels, etc. for airlines, hotels, rental car companies, credit cards, etc.) from scraping their systems for data, meaning that subscribers to those various sites could no longer rely on mileage updates through the use of such sites. One of the sites came up with a workaround for United (they had members create email accounts that are associated with the website, and then go to ual.com and change the email on file to the new site email, so once a month when UA sends out balance emails, the site will update member accounts).

American relented with awardwallet.com, and my understanding is that now they allow it, so they know that people are putting in their AA FF#s and PWs. And I suspect that they're okay with it, presumably after looking at the site's policies for storing data, encryption, etc. I can't prove it, though, as I really don't have a clue as to how any of those sites really work.

I would think that European carriers could just as easily stop third party sites from such activity if they wanted to, and the fact that they haven't stopped them leads me to suspect that they're okay with it. And the same would go for financial institutions that allow mint.com etc. to aggregate financial data. It is within their power to curtail such use.


Interestingly, AF's FB is available on awardwallet.com, amongst other aggregating sites (I just looked, they list out who's supported), so either they're not aware of it, or they tacitly approve of it, T&C wording (which is often times there as a broad protection for the FFP) to the contrary or not. Lufthansa and BA and SQ and TG and QF (and the list is quite long...) are also "participants" in such sites. I'm not saying that's good, I'm just saying what is.

Okay, back to our regularly-scheduled programming...
Don't worry, one thing which is very much 'tacitly approved of' on FT is OT Don't take me wrong, I personally have no issue with you or anyone else using the services such as the one you describe, and I can't imagine FB saying that they randomly checked that someone else booked for you and it is against their T&Cs and thus they will discontinue your account. The same goes for award wallet, the way I understand it, I don't think airlines need to actively do anything for it to work with their FFPs but I think they will happily turn a blind eye as long as nothing goes wrong.

What I think, on the other hand, is that breaching the T&Cs makes one very vulnerable if anything goes wrong. The moment a security breach happens and a booking takes place that should not (e.g. some smart a** gets access to the system and trades someone else's miles for cash) the airlines will go for the 'easiest solution' which will be to say that the account owner breached his/her T&Cs and delete the accounts. If no such 'funny' thing happens, I don't think there will be any consequences.
orbitmic is offline  
Old Feb 12, 2014, 9:00 am
  #30  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,232
So I assume that as long as I book my F award while still elite (till the end of MAR 2014) that I will have no trouble traveling as an Ivory member this summer - correct ? I will be the traveler
Mister Nice is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.