RigpigMalta

Well my bad....
Since oil price crash, 2 months ago my company cut business class and put us in coach, I had flown PE roughly 5 years ago when it first came out and my synapses must have been muted when this month I used 32k miles to "upgrade" from EY to PE A seat. Absolutely terribly uncomfortable seat that neither reclines to a point deemed comfortable ergonomically or just in general a lousy seat I am 6' and a big built guy but what was I thinking

I usually enjoy LOS to CDG route as it is the going home flight but this was purgatory. I will purchase a BC before putting myself through that again.

orbitmic

You should have looked at the threads on this forum With a few very limited exceptions of few people who like it for the extra space and privacy on day flights, most of us have given AF W ghastly reviews over the years...

RigpigMalta

Yes I did orbit...but sometimes you just do something dumb anyway, I was thinking before "was it really that bad in 2010" Yes it was LOL.

orbitmic

The price of optimism...

Hoyaheel

My husband and I like those seats, and have no problem sleeping in them. If my choice is economy or premium voyageur (which means I can get the seats for not too much more than economy) they work for me. My budget doesn't extend to business seats (I always look for deals, but the choice is usually $1500 for PV or $3500 for business, so....)

bennos

Yes, this exactly.

Also, every time I fly AF W the cabin is completely full or nearly so (and I mean before the last minute storming of the non-revs)... if the overall (non-FT) consensus were that these seats are terrible, they wouldn't be selling and AF would have removed the W cabin entirely or else completely re-designed the seats in the BEST updates.

brunos

The question is not whether AF PE is a better overall product than Y, but whether PE seats are ergonomically comfortable, significantly better than Y seats.

I think that the consensus is that those seats are not good seats for sleeping. They do not recline and they are hard with little padding over the fixed shell. The fixed shell for PE seats has been a fiasco and airlines who installed it removed them (e.g. NH). They are better than Y for day flights because you have much more personal space, especially as the seat in front does not recline. But they are less comfortable for an overnight flight than competitor's PE seats such as CX or BA. On every airline, pax are disappointed that PE is just an improved Y product rather than anything close to J. PE typically provides "38" of pitch and a bit wider, with various degrees of improvements in service over Y. So it is better, and more expensive than Y, but the comfort of the seat is not great on AF and they do not recline, which some pax enjoy if they work and do not sleep.

Whether these PE seats correspond to demand is another question. For example, CX is reducing the number of PE seats to get more Y seats as they tend to fill PE with opup from Y. AF sells a lot of upgrade for cash from Y to W and also opup. LH and SQ are introducing PE, so there is an obvious demand.

GimmeLegRoom

... of a different sort. I read the reviews and decided Space Plus (also a cost for us, as we don't have status) on the upper deck of A380 would be a better choice than shelling out for PE. PE subsequently came down in price to what I had booked but I stayed where I was (I think we were also subject to a change fee).

Now, three days before our flight to Berlin, on just a whim I checked the AF earning chart for Alaska, and realized I booked us in classes where we would only earn 25%, where with PE we would at least have earned 125%.

I am feeling like the dumbest FTer ever... I am hardly new at this game...

af fp

+1 on PE being great for seating and bad for sleeping. I still prefer it to Y and will pay for it because I put space and service ahead of sleep but AF needs to improve this seat.

Goldorak

I fully agree with you. And I don't understand at all why they didn't take the opportunity of the BEST revamping to work on the recline rather than on the cushioning of the PE seat.

Henry III

I recently had a similar 'senior moment', booking a l/h PE ticket. The route was EDI-CDG-SIN (r/t) and I snapped it up in one of the recent "Wow"" sales (~£750, all-in).

What was I thinking? Virtually impossible to get decent sleep on this ~13 hour flight ... though, I have to say that the C/C were as good as one could expect: greeted by the CdC (as FB Platinum), and offered drinks from Business (throughout the flight), and even offered a second 'hot meal' (as there were a few spare). But essentially no real sleep.

For the return (SIN-CDG), where I really wished to be ready for a decent (half) day's work on arrival back in Scotland, a good night's sleep was critical; so, I was 'pleased' to be offered an upgrade to J at OLCI ... £300!

Not exactly a give-away but, considering how cheap the original ticket was, I thought it was well worth it! (Excellent meal just after take-off, followed by a solid, 8-hours' sleep!)

I think these PE seats are acceptable for the shorter-end of l/h (say CDG-NYC, for a day flight) but, if sleep is important - I'll buy up to J in future.

-- Henry

RigpigMalta

"I was 'pleased' to be offered an upgrade to J at OLCI ... £300!"

-- Henry[/QUOTE]

As a postnote and to my eternal shame, I was down as a quality observer on the flight and WAS offered an upgrade for E250! I turned it down thinking it was a baldrickesque cunning plan to make me go gooey eyed on the review....."My salad days, when I was green in judgment."

I will definitely be buying my own J class after that mistake!

Sjondorn

That is interesting - I was also a quality observer and got an upgrade to J (for 439E) and ofc took it.

IMO people just have too high expectations here - what I see in Premium Eco is just improved Eco (i.e. no armrest "fights", slightly more recline and more leg room). Perhaps also that's why I always go for the A fare, oftenly when booking the ticket late, the price is comparable to normal Y ticket. If you want it to recline, go for J.

MAN Pax

I've just had the "pleasure" of this seat on CDG-BKK +vv.

I blew the last of my FB miles on a promo fare.

Whilst it was fine for sitting and the space is a lot better than Y, I agree that it is terrible for sleeping. Just impossible to get comfortable and the recline is not enough. The leg support and foot rests are terrible.

I have had much better sleeps in Y.

RigpigMalta

I don't care what anyone says, It's a terrible seat period (Unless your a hobbit)

I am still wearing a hair shirt over my decision LOL