Community
Wiki Posts
Search

Air France to shed 5,000 jobs (French press)

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Jan 13, 2015, 12:52 pm
  #1  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Eurostar Carte Blanche, SBB-CFF-FFS GA-AG, SNCF Grand Voyageur LeClub
Posts: 7,834
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 8_1_2 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/600.1.4 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/8.0 Mobile/12B440 Safari/600.1.4)

Article in Le Figaro:

http://www.lefigaro.fr/societes/2015...5000postes.php

Last edited by San Gottardo; Jan 13, 2015 at 2:22 pm
San Gottardo is offline  
Old Jan 13, 2015, 11:05 pm
  #2  
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere between 0 and 13,000 metres high
Programs: AF/KL Life Plat, BA GGL+GfL, ALL Plat, Hilton Diam, Marriott Gold, blablablah, etc
Posts: 30,516
Note that according to Liberation, AF is denying the news, effectively suggesting that they have not yet decided whether there is need for another voluntary departures plan, let alone any numbers should this happen (mods - may be it might be worth updating thread title until we know which of the two papers proves right?)

http://www.liberation.fr/economie/20...postes_1180147
orbitmic is offline  
Old Jan 13, 2015, 11:11 pm
  #3  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 100,399
Shouldn't the question be whether AF needs those workers and not whether they need to get rid of the workers?
MSPeconomist is offline  
Old Jan 13, 2015, 11:51 pm
  #4  
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere between 0 and 13,000 metres high
Programs: AF/KL Life Plat, BA GGL+GfL, ALL Plat, Hilton Diam, Marriott Gold, blablablah, etc
Posts: 30,516
Originally Posted by MSPeconomist
Shouldn't the question be whether AF needs those workers and not whether they need to get rid of the workers?
Absolutely! ^
orbitmic is offline  
Old Jan 14, 2015, 12:10 am
  #5  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: AMS
Programs: A number, but no status no more
Posts: 3,049
Originally Posted by MSPeconomist
Shouldn't the question be whether AF needs those workers and not whether they need to get rid of the workers?
It should, but that would mean looking at the core issue ... why is your cost per employee so high compared to your competition or sister company, and what can be done about it .... leading to a new strike because the unions will not discuss any cut in current benefits.

So instead, cut the number of employees, until you are bare bones, with unhappy customers due to the resulting decreased customer service and delays due to staff shortages, continue to lose money and go under.

GenevaFlyer
GenevaFlyer is offline  
Old Jan 22, 2015, 5:54 am
  #6  
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere between 0 and 13,000 metres high
Programs: AF/KL Life Plat, BA GGL+GfL, ALL Plat, Hilton Diam, Marriott Gold, blablablah, etc
Posts: 30,516
Update today - apparently it would be a new plan for 800 voluntary retirement/redundancy http://www.lemonde.fr/economie/artic...1545_3234.html
orbitmic is offline  
Old Jan 22, 2015, 6:06 am
  #7  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,713
Good thing they leaked that bigger number first.

Makes 800 look trifling in comparison!
irishguy28 is offline  
Old Jan 22, 2015, 6:19 am
  #8  
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere between 0 and 13,000 metres high
Programs: AF/KL Life Plat, BA GGL+GfL, ALL Plat, Hilton Diam, Marriott Gold, blablablah, etc
Posts: 30,516
Originally Posted by irishguy28
Good thing they leaked that bigger number first.

Makes 800 look trifling in comparison!
Yep the good old "phew it's not that bad after all! I was fearing much worse"
orbitmic is offline  
Old Jan 22, 2015, 6:29 am
  #9  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Eurostar Carte Blanche, SBB-CFF-FFS GA-AG, SNCF Grand Voyageur LeClub
Posts: 7,834
Article also mentions that they want to close unprofitable routes (which ones would those be?), that their RASM has gone down (surprise surprise).
San Gottardo is offline  
Old Jan 22, 2015, 6:56 am
  #10  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong, France
Programs: FB , BA Gold
Posts: 15,552
I like the appellation "departs volontaires' (voluntary retirement/redundancy). Thta is costly for AF.
brunos is offline  
Old Jan 23, 2015, 4:50 am
  #11  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 18,364
Originally Posted by brunos
I like the appellation "departs volontaires'.
Am I missing something? This is what they are normally referred to, isn't it? How would you call them?
NickB is offline  
Old Jan 23, 2015, 9:00 am
  #12  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong, France
Programs: FB , BA Gold
Posts: 15,552
Originally Posted by NickB
Am I missing something? This is what they are normally referred to, isn't it? How would you call them?
"Departs involontaires"?

I was thinking of "licenciement pour motif économique ".
It seems that the "plan de depart volontaire" has quite a few advantages in terms of procedure and cost, but the departing employees are not necessarily those that the company wished would depart and it has been getting increasingly harder at AF to find enough volunteers.
brunos is offline  
Old Jan 23, 2015, 9:05 am
  #13  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 18,364
Originally Posted by brunos
"Departs involontaires"?
But that is the whole point: this is not the case of people people made redundant against their will but, on the contrary, individuals who voluntarily leave the company. We would also call this voluntary redundancies in English to distinguish them from involuntary redundancies.
NickB is offline  
Old Jan 23, 2015, 11:10 am
  #14  
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere between 0 and 13,000 metres high
Programs: AF/KL Life Plat, BA GGL+GfL, ALL Plat, Hilton Diam, Marriott Gold, blablablah, etc
Posts: 30,516
Originally Posted by brunos
but the departing employees are not necessarily those that the company wished would depart
I agree. In PR terms, voluntary redundancies and early retirement sound like the best of both worlds (and avoid tensions with unions to some extent), but in practice, it can often mean that AF may be sponsoring some of its best employees to go and work at competitors.

Voluntary redundancies can work well when the company then has the possibility to redistribute its workforce effectively and as it wants, but it is an unlikely occurrence here and, for instance, if someone based at CDG resigns and pockets the incentive while AF would have liked to get rid of someone based at ORY, to then move that person from ORY to CDG they will be facing further resistance and probably expenses.
orbitmic is offline  
Old Jan 24, 2015, 8:05 am
  #15  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong, France
Programs: FB , BA Gold
Posts: 15,552
Originally Posted by NickB
But that is the whole point: this is not the case of people people made redundant against their will but, on the contrary, individuals who voluntarily leave the company. We would also call this voluntary redundancies in English to distinguish them from involuntary redundancies.
Sorry if I was misunderstood. My point, as emphasized by Orbitmic, is that AF needs a coherent layoff plan that will not be achieved by these voluntary departures. This "plan de departs volontaires" will be easier with unions but does not achieve what AF needs.
brunos is offline  


Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.