l'agentsecret

Not sure it's been posted already. If so, please feel free to delete thread or merge with existing one.
Got hold of a copy of the internal AF staff magazine where in an article titled ''the new face of the medium haul offering'' it is mentioned that Premium Economy will be phased out possibly as early as January 2015 (not very clear) to leave only Business and Economy.
Other "improvements" will see the introduction of leather seats in both classes (non-reclining if the picture is anything to go by) with their 24 A319 retrofitted during the 1st semester of 2015 and their 25 A320 one year later. Real china, metal cutlery and proper glasses will be used in C and a hot dish will be offered on longer flights. The service protocol will be inspired by what is currently in place on long-haul flights (oshibori, ''gourmet'' coffee, wines selected by their new star sommelier...). The catering in Y will be "more generous and qualitative"(???)
These changes are introduced following a consultation with 10000 customers and travel managers.

brunos

I is always fascinating to see how often AF changes its vision.

ajs123

Does it imply that people who have a long haul PE ticket (say TATL) will sit in Y for their connecting flights? That's how AF actually could save money (not much, but they are desperate enough). Until now PE on medium haul meant you sit before the curtain (no guarantee of an empty middle seat) and have the same catering as J...

bennos

If so, that would be pretty disappointing. I realize medium haul PE isn't all that much different from Y, but the catering and guaranteed seating in the first few rows of the plane were nice touches as a benefit of purchasing a long haul W ticket.

I guess I don't really see how this saves significant amount of money, unless they think people will buy up to J now (which seems unlikely), or if the new J seats were substantially different from Y.

orbitmic

I certainly think so. It is how every other airline that I can think of (BA, AZ, TK, QF, NZ, etc) do it for their premium economy long haul passengers. PE was always meant to be "economy with a nicer seat" in AF's description.

orbitmic

No it wasn't posted before (the info you post generally never is and is always most appreciated by the frequent readers of this forum amongst us ^ )

As brunos says, it is always fascinating to see how AF will swear so adamantly that their way to do it is genius and will not change for anything in the world before operating a complete U-turn (which may or may not be accompanied by a "we told you so all along"). For years, AF told us that they spoke to business pax and they told them that they did not like fully flat. After wasting so many years, AF finally turned around. For years, AF told us that money was to be made on full fare economy rather than business/first classes and thus that the way to go was to ensure superior service to full fare eco (later "premium") even if it meant an inferior service for medium haul C. Now they seem to be making another U-turn.

When it comes to the substance, I can think of several people on this forum who were very keen on premium economy medium haul and will regret it dearly. I personally won't as I always thought it was not priced in a way that I would consider myself anyway, and all I can hope is that by discontinuing PE medium haul, AF will start introducing more keenly priced discounted C which may ensure that the former PE users still find something that they can buy and that the rest of us might occasionally be tempted further forward for an affordable premium the way BA, LX, or OS do it.

As I mentioned many times, I thought that AF's current system was probably untenable and I am certainly not surprised that PE will go. The very justification (try and attract full fare paying company users) was the very reason why it made no sense (beggars can't be choosers, and service-wise, AF has always claimed that company contract passengers were beggars because they would always keep using AF because of its incomparable direct network from CDG). In effect, few will disappear just because their full fare Y ticket now get them to travel Y, and many of those who can disappear often had good reason to have chosen other airlines long ago).

AF is very proud of its new leather seats, I have heard of them but not tried them and will wait and see. If they do not recline or only little, it will be bad in my view, but I don't think AF will care. As for improved catering, I'm waiting to see what it means. AF seem to love their "hot snacks" and I don't. they think it is improvement and I don't. But let us wait and see I guess... For the rest, the glass, china, etc sounds like what KLM reintroduced some years ago!

JOUY31

Oh, well . As I said earlier, the fare structure needs to be adapted at the same time as the cabin/service structure. We will see if the changes to the premium & business class tickets make sense price-wise for the various customer segments, on the various routes and against the various competitors.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/23614075-post7.html

orbitmic

You were indeed the main person I had in mind and was feeling sorry for. But just as you say, I have a glimmer of hope that they manage to introduce a C pricing which will enable you to get the same product (plus free middle seat) for the same price or less than what you were paying for PE. Here is to hope anyway...

hopeful_me

And what might happen to passengers who already hold PE tickets for travel next year (like myself, with medium haul followed by TATL, in February)? I doubt they can downgrade to Y -- too big a premium paid, although I am not sure such a move is illegal as technically PE is Y.

bennos

PE is not technically Y, it is W. Passengers ticketed in W but seated in Y would I imagine be entitled to the difference in fare (probably quite small due to the TATL being the main component) for the involuntary downgrade.

hopeful_me

If PE is considered a class in itself, then Regulation 261 stipulates a different compensation for a downgrade (30/50/70% of the ticket cost, not the fare difference). We will see.

brunos

Indeed, what amazes me is that AF keeps coming up with these "brilliant ideas" that no airline had implemented before (you wonder why) and then drop them some months/years later. To be fair to AF on this one, European PE has been in operation for a long time but whether its pricing (quite expensive while C was outrageously expensive) attracted many non-captive pax relative to C on other airlines is an open question. And it was a killer for transfer business long haul pax as it meant a poor C service in line with PE (rather than the reverse).

AF seems to move to the standard model of BA and others, with a C with real C service (unlike what AF serves) and hopefully attractive P2P pricing.

PE was economy all along on medium haul flights (it was a special expensive fare bucket of economy), so AF should not have a problem seating in new Y a pax already ticketed in a PE fare bucket. The question is whether the computer will be able to manage seating properly.
BA has an important feature for elites and flexible tickets, that is seat selection from time of booking. I believe that AF badly needs this feature for high economy fare buckets (e.g. longhaul PE pax transferring to medium haul).

Regarding the seat, it seems that there is a trend is towards nonreclining seats. Not all airlines follow the trend though.
Several airlines use leather seats, so that is not a novelty (they are more expensive but supposed to be more durable and easier to clean).
I assume that the retrofitting of A319 and A320 will mean more seats added. On the domestic network, A320s have 13 more nonreclining seats. But not all nonreclining seats have the same shape.
I hate the AF domestic seats as they are hard and their shape is uncomfortable and hurt my back. The new Easyjet nonreclining seats are much better. But I would be upset to have a standard nonreclining seat in C, with just the middle seat blocked. As a comparison BA seats are reclining and are transformed into wider seats than in the back of the plane.

Goldorak

The part in bold is wrong. Their new seat is reclining. I was part of the people who tried several proposed seats and gave opinion.

brunos

Source of confirmation that the chosen seat is reclining?

l'agentsecret

Quite possible. It is an assumption on my part rather than an information. The picture used in the article (which unfortunately I cannot copy and post here) shows a block of 3 seats and is taken from a slight angle with no button to be seen anywhere on the armrests hence my conclusion. Said picture is of the C cabin and while the middle seat continues to be blocked, the ''flip-down'' table and the possibility to move the armrests laterally also seem to have disappeared. Furthermore, the accompanying text actually states that the seats already have a 19 degrees angle of recline and not ''up to'' which, in my opinion, meant that it was a fixed feature.

As far as capacity goes, 5 seats will be added on the A319s and 9 on the A320s.

A new pricing structure is also planned with ''economy flex'' replacing ''premium eco''. EF will guarantee a seat at the front of the Y cabin (albeit behind the curtain) and Sky Priority benefits on the ground (no mention of lounge access though).

More details on the ''upgraded'' catering: hot dish in C on flights over 2H10, a bigger croissant at breakfast in Y (whoa !!) as well as improved ''sucré-salé'' and a better sandwich on all international flights from lunch time onwards.