HasteFlier

I completely agree then My point was merely that the investors might not have lost money on all the previous ventures - but I admit that, if the only option was to sell to BA the first time, they might not get so "lucky" this time.

As a side note, I met someone who was involved with L'Avion a few years ago, and I do remember him saying that they had to sell to BA, as they were unsustainable in the long term. He also said that the airline was a success, but he might not have been completely objective

olivedel

But I don't think they gave it to BA for free

orbitmic

My understanding is that it is currently a sustainable operation which is profitable following a number of reforms (focusing on the JFK and EWR routes, joining the JV and offering AA codeshare, moving to three class, and moving to Orly W to maximise connection opportunities with both AF and BA flights.

Goldorak

Makes sense. Thanks

PHLFlyer

How do you even buy a ticket? They are not loaded into Sabre GDS, nor can I find any website for this entreprise on Google - only links to stories about it, most published within the past week and referencing a July 11 startup. And none of the stories I have seen mention a website or phone number to contact for sales!

olivedel

http://www.lacompagnie.com/fr
Not sure if this link works outside of France.

Goldorak

I think they are still not yet allowed to sell tickets from the US.

adrouault

This may be one of the dumbest ideas I've seen in recent memory. They will be using an obsolete hard product, and there will be no real mileage program with other airlines.

Great. All of the downsides of the old AF product with none of the benefits.

Goldorak

update : apparently the US DOT has now granted the necessary rights/route authority to La Compagnie.

sbm12

Where are you seeing that? The /en section of the website is still not active that I can see.

orbitmic

It's written on their website.

af fp

I can only see an opportunistic move here. Make a few bucks on one of the busiest premium long haul routes out of Paris which can be served with a small old plane. Or start a franchise that can be sold quickly to a big AF competitor, probably LH. It would be interesting to see both LH and BA with bases in Paris while AF is not in LHR and FRA (for good reasons though, DL seems to be a stronger ally, in terms of quality at least, than AA or UA)...

orbitmic

I'm not really sure about DL being a stronger ally than AA or UA. At one point, AF did try to open transatlantic flights from LHR which is Europe's largest market, but they failed.

My guess is that BA had the intelligence to get on a service which is different from their mainline with Openskies: smaller planes (752s, while AF used a 772 from LHR) and with a slightly simplified service which allows BA/EC to offer cheaper fares than AF in all three classes of service (Y, W, J). AF did not use a similarly flexible approach. Instead, they offered their mainline product which is unfortunately inferior to both main LHR competitors (BA and VS) and at prices that were essentially equivalent while the installed players obviously have a natural advantage.

The LH strategy seems to be different: rather than develop their brand, they buy airlines, so effectively, they have indirectly developped activities from ZRH, GVA, VIE, or BRU without any need to use their own planes.

af fp

I see DL as stronger than AA and UA from the point of view of the quality of their service in business class.

Indeed LH are buying airlines instead of bringing their own planes and I see them doing just this in Paris if they could.

As for AF not having had the right approach in London, I agree, they did not have a compelling product, but at least they did not invest in a whole new brand and infrastructure. Maybe they should have taken the risk. But AF seems to be slowly abandoning the UK to KL.

San Gottardo

Regarding Lufthansa: during the period in which they bought the airlines that you mentioned they also followed an approach where they did build their own fleet. Remember Lufthansa Italia? Today, LH Italia failed and they weren't happy with all their purchases (got rid of bmi, Austrian needed very very heavy restructuring). So today they are done with that, they are busier with maintaining the position that they have with their legacy carriers, with making work their Germanwings venture, and pondering whether to create a true LCC. Buying La Compagnie? Why? They could have bought l'Avion when they were still in the "let's buy airlines" phase of their corporate development. Now that they are no longer,why would they buy an airline which compared to L'Avion operates in a market that has become even more competitive?

Don't think so, unless they're completely stupid.