Henry III

What I find most stingy about AF's PE is that you only get the standard Y meal. This is even more odd now that AF offers 'a la carte' meals to Y pax, for a price; this should be included in the PE ticket. @:-)

-- Henry

Goldorak

Not exactly the same Y meal because the appetizer is different ("better") and you get at the end this plastic cone with candies, chocolates, etc.
But I agree with you : they could propose for free some à la carte meals in W.

orbitmic

Indeed:

- AF W = Y meal with J starter and chocolate
- BA W = Y meal with J main course
- AZ, QF, NZ, TK W = a different meal, not quite J (particularly in terms of service which is not course by course, etc) but much better than Y.

355F1

Just arrived in Paris and sitting here in one of the lounges.

I flew LAX-CDG last night in PE on a 777-300. Again, the trip I was looking at was $1250 in Y; PE was only $1,630.

I already have Skyteam Elite+ so I didn't get to "utilize" that as a sole benefit of PE. I also didn't check any baggage.

I flew the 777 in Y a couple months ago so I can do a simple comparison here.

I am going to equate the seat to flying domestic FC, but a tad better.

I have a herniated disc in my back and have had three bouts with sciatica that left me unable to walk for 2-5 days--literally curled up in a ball in my bed screaming in pain. Thus, I am very sensitive to bad seats.

First, the seat has a moveable back piece (hard to describe but it's the entire back area that supports your entire back...?) that is actually quite comfortable. It basically "moves" with your movement offering full support.

The seat bottom is literally the same hardness as the Y seats in the 777. Your butt gets used to it but it is rather uncomfortable at first.

The foot rests are the same in Y & PE. However, the bottom button on the seat adjustment kicks out a very comfortable leg rest aligning with the footrest. I liked it very much and left it out the entire 10.5hr flight.

Food was very good (I think AF's food is vastly superior to DL (quantity AND quality) and I am a DL Fanboy!). Like the previous posters said, you get a very yummy appetizer and an AF "cone" of 5-6 pieces of candy and chocolate. The candy was good.

The way the seat slides down is pretty strange, but to me, it just seemed like a skinnier domestic DL FC seat. I had it extended during 90% of the flight and had to keep adjusting myself to compensate for back pain. (However, I HAVE TO DO THIS DURING ANY FLIGHT SO I AM NOT ATTRIBUTING THIS TO THE PE SEAT).

As for sleeping....well, even though it was an overnight flight I actually didn't sleep. I did lay down for about 30 minutes and I was able to get mildly comfortable lying on the middle armrest. I got lucky in that I had my window seat with no neighbor. I tried lying against the window and it was a tad less comfy...but I can't sleep sitting upright on ANY Y seat; I always have to curl up and rest my head in my arms, which is why my favorite NON-BC seat is seat 88A on the A380. That extra ledge is perfect for sleeping. I assume they have it in PE on the A380, too....?

Anyway, in summary, the seat isn't a business class seat. It seems that many of the complaints on the Internet are based on people expecting a business class-seat for PE price. Simply put, get your expectations in check before you sit down.

It IS more comfortable than Y (AF does 10 abreast on their 777....ugh...cattle car)...the cabin feels very spacious. The amenity kits are nice. I have had excellent service on every AF flight I've been on.

The seat is VERY comfy if you are just sitting. I didn't feel that much of a difference when lying down than I do in Y. It's a freaking airplane, people. I don't like feeling crowded and I know I don't expect to sleep on flights.

So, would I do it again for the same price I paid? Yes. If it were twice the price of Y I would honestly try to book an upper deck Y seat on the A380 instead.

For reference, I flew two 10+hr flights on KLM's WBC in February (paid miles+$) to UG, and my back felt almost the same as it does right now. I had the same problem with both seats in that you do find yourself adjusting yourself upright once in awhile--using your feet to "push" your body up a little.

I've never flown AF's BC product but have flown Delta's lie-flats (hands down the only experience I would actually PAY for with my own money--I got OpUpped on a flight home from Europe in 2011 and thought I went to heaven...haha).

I cherish personal space when flying. I liked PE. Even on a 10+hr flight. I would use this product again if the price were no more than 50% more than Y.

Btw, I am 5'11" and 170lbs. I always have to sit either cross-legged Indian-style, or with one leg up on the seat resting under the other due to my bad disc. These seats allowed that where a regular Y seat does not due to lack of width.

UStravelfan

Flew PE CDG-JFK-CDG.
Just OK during the day, definitely not good at night.
A waste of money in my humble opinion.

obscure2k

Thank you so much, 355F1 for the report. Much appreciated.

orbitmic

I'm sure some do but I honestly don't think it would be true to say that of comments on AF W on this forum. The vast majority of comparisons to date have been between AF PE and PE on other airlines, including BA, TK, AZ, EC, QF, NZ, CX, etc. On that front, I would say that AF PE is inferior to almost all others except (in my view) BA PE (which some people find more comfortable but I don't really). The seat is similar to AZ but service is much less good. The seat is vastly less comfortable than TK, EC, QF, and NZ (I haven't tried CX but would expect it to be much better than AF too).

Comparison to J would make no sense but in my view neither does comparison to Y. W is a class of its own, and while it can happen, as in your case, that W is very close in price to Y in which case it should be a no brainer (in just a same way as it can happen that W can be nearly the same price as J on other airlines in which case it is equally a no brainer in the other direction), it is typically a specific product with its specific price range and its specific competitors.

Finally glad you had a good flight and good service! It is always nice to hear!

Goldorak

+1 ^

CGRA

Is it chocolate box in exchange of the J seat or chocolate box plus the J seat )

355F1

I guess it depends on the price differential between Y and W. If Y is $1k and W is $2,000 it would be a difficult decision to make, for sure. But you have to remember you get 50% additional MQMs with Delta's SkyMiles, which makes it quite worth it in my case.

Welcome!


I actually did a lot of research on the internet outside of FT to determine if I wanted to go the PE route. It just seems that the Internet was created for people to complain about everything! Haha!

I read some of the "complaints" that people have about Y and all other flying stuff and I am just dumbfounded how something so trivial in some cases can cause a person to think that someone just insulted their mother....geesh...it's just life, people....it ain't always puppy dogs and ice cream and it really isn't that bad!

I have never tried PE on any other airline; actually, the only international airlines I have ever been on are KL/AF/DL. I tried to get an UG on this AF flight last night but they said with a straight face, $5,100 for one way....hahahah!!!!

I like KLM because of their lenient UG policy and will probably book them next time I book a trip to EU or SA. Besides, AMS is a fantastic airport in every aspect.

Question: I couldn't believe my eyes yesterday when leaving my hometown of Phoenix. I saw a BA 747 at a gate.... I looked up their flight schedules and they have direct LHR-PHX!!! Is their PE product worth the money? Direct to London is kind of nice and I will be going there for vacation this year or next.

355F1

UPDATE: Woke up after sleeping for the first time in a day or so and I have no back pain at all from the PE seat. If you live with back pain you know how much of a success this is! ^^^^

obscure2k

Very good news. Also, of interest to me was your description of the very ample leg room and ability to stretch your legs. Important for me as I had a total knee replacement a few months ago. Thanks again.

johan rebel

I'll take Marmite over Premium Economy any day.

Johan

355F1

Just landed CDG-LAX and the A380 PE window seat with the side ledge was freakin' awesome. I was even able to doze off for a couple hours.

I tell ya...that ledge makes all the difference in Y and W!

obscure2k

More good news. We are confirmed A380 RT.
Thanks for update