#1
JOUY31 , Aug 15, 2012 3:10 pm
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JOUY31
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Today- Join DateJan 2001
- LocationParis, France, AF F+ Rouge pour toujours, Flying Blue whatever, LH FTL, HHonors Gold, formerly proud SCC Executive, now IC Ambassador, BA down to nobody, Grand Voyageur Le Club
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Source: LCI (in French)
According to airport sources in BEY, Air France flight management decided to divert a plane flying CDG-BEY to AMM, due to demonstrations blocking the road between the airport and the city.
According to airport sources in BEY, Air France flight management decided to divert a plane flying CDG-BEY to AMM, due to demonstrations blocking the road between the airport and the city.
#2
Quote:
According to airport sources in BEY, Air France flight management decided to divert a plane flying CDG-BEY to AMM, due to demonstrations blocking the road between the airport and the city.
Good grief, BEY and AMM are not quite next door to each other, I really wonder what happened to the passengers and hope they were able to safely reach their destination very quickly!Originally Posted by JOUY31
Source: LCI (in French)According to airport sources in BEY, Air France flight management decided to divert a plane flying CDG-BEY to AMM, due to demonstrations blocking the road between the airport and the city.
#3
But AF did not have any evening BEY flights scheduled on Wed:
[KVS Availability Tool 7.0.3/Diamond - Amadeus: Timetable/NL-BCDF]
[KVS Availability Tool 7.0.3/Diamond - Amadeus: Timetable/NL-BCDF]
Code:
CDG Paris Charles De Gaulle FR [LFPG] BEY Beirut Rafic Hariri Intl LB [OLBA] MON 13 Aug 2012 - 20 Aug 2012 Carrier Flight From Depart To Arrive A/C St Frequency | Dur'n | Dep T | Arr T | Effect | Ending | Exceptions --------- ------ ---- -------- ---- -------- --- -- ---------------------------------------------------------------- AF 566 CDG 09:00 BEY 14:05 77W 0 1234567 04:05 2F - 25 Mar 16 Sep AF/ME 564 CDG 10:30 BEY 15:45 332 0 1234567 04:15 2F - 25 Mar 16 Sep AF/ME 568 CDG 13:40 BEY 18:55 332 0 1234567 04:15 2F - 25 Mar 16 Sep AF 562 CDG 16:30 BEY 21:45 EQV 0 12-4567 04:15 2F - 13 Aug 20 Aug AF 7662 CDG 09:35 MRS 11:00 319 0 --3--67 08:40 2F 4 27 Jun 02 Sep -> AF 4390 MRS 14:30 BEY 19:15 320 0 1 - AF 7672 CDG 08:35 MRS 10:00 320 0 --3--67 09:40 2F 4 27 Jun 02 Sep -> AF 4390 MRS 14:30 BEY 19:15 320 0 1 - AF 1148 CDG 07:40 BCN 09:20 320 0 -----6- 10:35 2F 1 21 Jul 01 Sep -> AF 4335 BCN 11:25 MRS 12:35 319 0 1 3 -> AF 4390 MRS 14:30 BEY 19:15 320 0 1 - AF 7620 CDG 07:40 BOD 08:55 321 0 --3---- 10:35 2F B 11 Jul 22 Aug -> AF 7603 BOD 11:40 MRS 12:45 319 0 B 4 -> AF 4390 MRS 14:30 BEY 19:15 320 0 1 - AF 1240 CDG 07:25 AMS 08:40 EQV 0 --3--67 10:50 2F - 13 Aug 20 Aug -> AF/## 8281 AMS 09:20 MRS 11:20 E90 0 - 4 -> AF 4390 MRS 14:30 BEY 19:15 320 0 1 - AF 1126 CDG 07:20 VCE 09:00 319 0 -----6- 10:55 2D - 14 Jul 01 Sep -> AF 4333 VCE 09:35 MRS 11:00 319 0 - 3 -> AF 4390 MRS 14:30 BEY 19:15 320 0 1 - AF 7660 CDG 07:20 MRS 08:45 EQV 0 --3--67 10:55 2F 4 13 Aug 20 Aug -> AF 4390 MRS 14:30 BEY 19:15 320 0 1 -
#4
JOUY31 , Aug 15, 2012 4:17 pm
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According to some twitter feeds (Marina Tymen, who was one of our gracious hosts at the CDG DO), AF flight 562, which departed from CDG at 16:49 (Paris time) and is operated with an A330-200 (F-GZCK), has refueled in DAM (closer than AMM) and is now headed to or has landed at LCA.
#5
JOUY31 , Aug 15, 2012 11:36 pm
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The aircraft is scheduled to leave LCA for BEY at 2:40 PM and arrive at 3:25 PM (Paris time).
#7
irishguy28 , Aug 16, 2012 2:21 am
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Quote:
I guess KVS is wrong, then.Originally Posted by KVS
But AF did not have any evening BEY flights scheduled on Wed:
#9
San Gottardo , Aug 16, 2012 7:05 am
I'd really like to learn more details about what has really happened. What is known for a fact is that last night some protesters blocked the airport road, that the flight therefore didn't want to land in Beirut but wanted to deviate to Amman. Running out of fuel it instead changed plans again and diverted to Damascus instead where I refilled. It later changed plans once more and continued and went to Larnaca.
This raises a number of questions of judgement, for which there might be good reasons but that's why I would like to learn more:
1. What was it in Beirut that was deemed so dangerous by Air France to justify a deviation, whilst *no* other company deviated its flights? Not Lufthansa, not Alitalia, not British Airways/bmi, none of the airlines from the Middle East? Surely some of them are scheduled to land later than Air France, by which time the incident may have been over - but if it was over, why then didn't the plane fly from Damascus to Beirut but to Larnaca? Also, the time Air France decided to deviate its flight is about the time when other flights of above mentioned airlines take off from Europe, yet none of them decided to delay, cancel or deviate their flights? So what was it that made AF decide not to land in Beirut? Who gave the information about blocked airport route: Air France operations in Paris, AF in Beirut, Beirut ATC? Who took part in the assessment of the situation and the decision to deviate?
2. It is one thing not to land in Beirut because it is deemed an insecure place, but then to chose Damascus instead is interesting. Again, what was behind that choice? Was it only on the way to Amman that the crew realised that they didn't have enough fuel and needed to refuel in Damascus? That would say a lot about the crew's (in)ability to properly manage its flight and fuel. If Amman was not certain to be in the plane's range from the start, then why not go to Larnaca straight away?
3. Also, once refuelled in Damascus, why then not continue to Amman but change plans and go to Larnaca instead? Larnaca might objectively be the more suitable deviation airport (eg for visa issues), but then why try Amman first?
4. Having spoken to someone who had a business partner on the flight it *seems* that in Damascus pax and crew were asked to raise money to pay for the fuel. I personally find that completely unbelievable (smells like an urban legend to me), but can someone confirm? Whilst AF no longer serves Damascus, surely there are procedures in place that kick in when the airline must pay for things like fuel or passenger services at deviation airports that are not part of its network. Don't know, Captain has a credit card or Air France has a line with the airport and fuel suppliers? Maybe someone can clarify
This raises a number of questions of judgement, for which there might be good reasons but that's why I would like to learn more:
1. What was it in Beirut that was deemed so dangerous by Air France to justify a deviation, whilst *no* other company deviated its flights? Not Lufthansa, not Alitalia, not British Airways/bmi, none of the airlines from the Middle East? Surely some of them are scheduled to land later than Air France, by which time the incident may have been over - but if it was over, why then didn't the plane fly from Damascus to Beirut but to Larnaca? Also, the time Air France decided to deviate its flight is about the time when other flights of above mentioned airlines take off from Europe, yet none of them decided to delay, cancel or deviate their flights? So what was it that made AF decide not to land in Beirut? Who gave the information about blocked airport route: Air France operations in Paris, AF in Beirut, Beirut ATC? Who took part in the assessment of the situation and the decision to deviate?
2. It is one thing not to land in Beirut because it is deemed an insecure place, but then to chose Damascus instead is interesting. Again, what was behind that choice? Was it only on the way to Amman that the crew realised that they didn't have enough fuel and needed to refuel in Damascus? That would say a lot about the crew's (in)ability to properly manage its flight and fuel. If Amman was not certain to be in the plane's range from the start, then why not go to Larnaca straight away?
3. Also, once refuelled in Damascus, why then not continue to Amman but change plans and go to Larnaca instead? Larnaca might objectively be the more suitable deviation airport (eg for visa issues), but then why try Amman first?
4. Having spoken to someone who had a business partner on the flight it *seems* that in Damascus pax and crew were asked to raise money to pay for the fuel. I personally find that completely unbelievable (smells like an urban legend to me), but can someone confirm? Whilst AF no longer serves Damascus, surely there are procedures in place that kick in when the airline must pay for things like fuel or passenger services at deviation airports that are not part of its network. Don't know, Captain has a credit card or Air France has a line with the airport and fuel suppliers? Maybe someone can clarify
#10
irishguy28 , Aug 16, 2012 7:19 am
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Quote:
Given the situation on the ground in Syria, it really wouldn't surprise me.Originally Posted by San Gottardo
4. Having spoken to someone who had a business partner on the flight it *seems* that in Damascus pax and crew were asked to raise money to pay for the fuel. I personally find that completely unbelievable (smells like an urban legend to me), but can someone confirm? Whilst AF no longer serves Damascus, surely there are procedures in place that kick in when the airline must pay for things like fuel or passenger services at deviation airports that are not part of its network. Don't know, Captain has a credit card or Air France has a line with the airport and fuel suppliers? Maybe someone can clarify
Air France probably does not have a procedure in place for a plane arriving at a point it no longer serves. Depending on who the airport operator is, or the fuel supplier, then it is likely/possible that in Damascus these are entities with which Air France has no dealings with at all. (By this I mean that Air France may not do business with these companies at ANY airport, and therefore there is no current contract or relationship between them that could be used to grease the wheels of this unexpected transaction). Or it could just be that they merely wanted payment up front, which the Air France crew were not able to meet.
It does strike one as rather strange that a reputable company that should be good for the money is treated like that. Such stories typically only surface about carriers that are in trouble and where those expected to supply fuel can rightly worry that they would never subsequently see payment.
It could be true! It will be interesting to see if any more details become known. You say "pax and crew were asked to raise payment". Did they? There must be further details from this source of yours.
#11
JOUY31 , Aug 16, 2012 8:45 am
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Source: Le Telegramme
Quote:
En fait, ce déroutement n'a pas été simple. "La situation s'est dégradée rapidement pendant la phase d'approche à Beyrouth, ce qui a conduit la compagnie à décider d'un déroutement sur Amman, ce qui apparaissait alors comme la meilleure solution", a expliqué le directeur de permanence à Air France, Pierre Caussade.
Damas seule solution pour faire le plein
"Mais le commandement de bord n'a pas pu obtenir du contrôle aérien du secteur l'autorisation d'emprunter une trajectoire directe sur Amman. En fin de compte, avec le carburant restant, le seul aéroport à portée a été Damas", a ajouté un commandant de bord, porte-parole des opérations aériennes de la compagnie.
Bien qu'Air France ne desserve plus l'escale de Damas, l'avion a pu faire le plein en deux heures avant de repartir sur Chypre, avec ses 174 passagers et 11 membres d'équipage.
Originally Posted by Le Telegramme
(...)En fait, ce déroutement n'a pas été simple. "La situation s'est dégradée rapidement pendant la phase d'approche à Beyrouth, ce qui a conduit la compagnie à décider d'un déroutement sur Amman, ce qui apparaissait alors comme la meilleure solution", a expliqué le directeur de permanence à Air France, Pierre Caussade.
Damas seule solution pour faire le plein
"Mais le commandement de bord n'a pas pu obtenir du contrôle aérien du secteur l'autorisation d'emprunter une trajectoire directe sur Amman. En fin de compte, avec le carburant restant, le seul aéroport à portée a été Damas", a ajouté un commandant de bord, porte-parole des opérations aériennes de la compagnie.
Bien qu'Air France ne desserve plus l'escale de Damas, l'avion a pu faire le plein en deux heures avant de repartir sur Chypre, avec ses 174 passagers et 11 membres d'équipage.
#12
JOUY31 , Aug 16, 2012 10:25 am
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Source: Le Figaro
As a precautionary measure, the crew asked what cash passengers had available, if they had to pay for fuel in cash, according to an Air France spokesperson, quoted by Reuters. Ultimately, Air France managed to pay for the fuel. The payment mode and the amount were not specified.
Quote:
Un vol Air France parti mercredi soir de Paris pour Beyrouth, et avec 174 passagers à bord, a dû être dérouté pour raisons de sécurité, et a fait escale à Damas pendant deux heures pour faire le plein de kérosène. "Par mesure de précaution et d'anticipation, l'équipage a procédé au recensement des disponibilités d'avoirs en liquide des passagers pour payer le plein de carburant en liquide", a dit à Reuters une porte-parole d'Air France. "En définitive, Air France a pu s'acquitter elle-même du montant du plein de carburant", a-t-elle ajouté, sans préciser la facture ni le moyen par lequel Air France l'a finalement réglé.
Short and loose translation:Originally Posted by Le Figaro
L'équipage du vol Air France Paris-Beyrouth qui a dû faire escale mercredi à Damas pour se ravitailler en carburant a demandé à ses passagers de quelle somme d'argent ils disposaient pour régler le plein si besoin, a-t-on appris auprès de la compagnie. Mais l'entreprise a finalement réglé elle-même la somme demandée par les autorités aéroportuaires de la capitale syrienne.Un vol Air France parti mercredi soir de Paris pour Beyrouth, et avec 174 passagers à bord, a dû être dérouté pour raisons de sécurité, et a fait escale à Damas pendant deux heures pour faire le plein de kérosène. "Par mesure de précaution et d'anticipation, l'équipage a procédé au recensement des disponibilités d'avoirs en liquide des passagers pour payer le plein de carburant en liquide", a dit à Reuters une porte-parole d'Air France. "En définitive, Air France a pu s'acquitter elle-même du montant du plein de carburant", a-t-elle ajouté, sans préciser la facture ni le moyen par lequel Air France l'a finalement réglé.
As a precautionary measure, the crew asked what cash passengers had available, if they had to pay for fuel in cash, according to an Air France spokesperson, quoted by Reuters. Ultimately, Air France managed to pay for the fuel. The payment mode and the amount were not specified.
#13
Quote:
Interestingly enough, AF did not enter a diversion into the system. Instead, they removed the CDG-BEY flight from the Timetable (yesterday), and then scheduled a 22+ hour long CDG-DAM flight with 2 stops (today):Originally Posted by irishguy28
I guess KVS is wrong, then.
[KVS Availability Tool 7.0.3/Diamond - Amadeus: Timetable/NL-BCDF]
Code:
[KVS Availability Tool 7.0.3/Diamond - Amadeus Operational Info: AF 562/15 Aug 2012]CDG Paris Charles De Gaulle FR [LFPG] BEY Beirut Rafic Hariri Intl LB [OLBA] MON 13 Aug 2012 - 20 Aug 2012 Carrier Flight From Depart To Arrive A/C St Frequency | Dur'n | Dep T | Arr T | Effect | Ending | Exceptions --------- ------ ---- -------- ---- -------- --- -- ---------------------------------------------------------------- AF 566 CDG 09:00 BEY 14:05 77W 0 1234567 04:05 2F - 25 Mar 16 Sep AF 562 CDG 16:30 BEY 21:45 EQV 0 12-4567 04:15 2F - 13 Aug 20 Aug AF 562 CDG 16:34 BEY 16:25 +1 332 2 --3---- 22:51 2F - 15 Aug 15 Aug
Code:
Planned Flight Info
Segment Departure Arrival Duration
------- --------- --------- --------
CDG-DAM 16:34/Wed 22:00/Wed 04:26
DAM-LCA 00:25/Thu 01:25/Thu 01:00
LCA-BEY 15:40/Thu 16:25/Thu 00:45
Location Time Operational Event
-------- ----- ---------------------------
CDG 16:35 ESTIMATED TIME OF DEPARTURE
CDG 16:34 LEFT THE GATE
CDG 16:49 TOOK OFF
DAM 22:00 AIRCRAFT LANDED
DAM 22:12 ARRIVED
LCA 17:01 LEFT THE GATE
LCA 17:05 TOOK OFF
BEY 17:33 ESTIMATED TIME OF ARRIVAL
BEY 17:32 AIRCRAFT LANDED
BEY 17:38 ARRIVED
Segment Flight Note
------- ---------------------------------------------
CDG-DAM AIRCRAFT OWNER AIR FRANCE
DAM-LCA AIRCRAFT OWNER AIR FRANCE
LCA-BEY AIRCRAFT OWNER AIR FRANCE
CDG-DAM COCKPIT CREW AIR FRANCE
DAM-LCA COCKPIT CREW AIR FRANCE
LCA-BEY COCKPIT CREW AIR FRANCE
CDG-DAM CABIN CREW AIR FRANCE
DAM-LCA CABIN CREW AIR FRANCE
LCA-BEY CABIN CREW AIR FRANCE
ENTIRE FLT- MEMBER OF SKYTEAM
CDG-DAM DEPARTS TERMINAL 2F
CDG-LCA CLASSES SHOWN JCDIZOWSAYBMUKHLQTENRVXG
CDG-BEY CLASSES SHOWN JCDIZOWSAYBMUKHLQTENRVXG
DAM-BEY CLASSES SHOWN JCDIZOWSAYBMUKHLQTENRVXG
ENTIRE FLT- 7/ DUTY FREE SALES
ENTIRE FLT- 15/ IN-SEAT VIDEO PLAYER/LIBRARY
ENTIRE FLT- ET/ ELECTRONIC TKT CANDIDATE
DEPARTS TERMINAL 2F
#14
Reuters has an article in English: Air France asks passengers for refuel cash at Damascus stop
As irishguy28 says, it seems airlines may not have procedures in place to pay for fuel in some locations where they do not normally land - especially if relations between the two countries involved are strained. (The article indicates that the captain normally carries a credit card for such emergencies - but in this case, the credit card was not accepted).
There was a similar incident in 2005 (American jet makes emergency landing), when a NWA DC-10 made an emergency landing in THR due to a (false) fire warning - and then struggled to find a way to pay for the fuel they needed (although I don't think they asked the passengers to contribute, on that occasion).
In the NW case, I'm surprised they couldn't have just asked KL (who had regular operations in THR) - but for the current AF case, I'm not sure any SkyTeam partners still serve DAM...
As irishguy28 says, it seems airlines may not have procedures in place to pay for fuel in some locations where they do not normally land - especially if relations between the two countries involved are strained. (The article indicates that the captain normally carries a credit card for such emergencies - but in this case, the credit card was not accepted).
There was a similar incident in 2005 (American jet makes emergency landing), when a NWA DC-10 made an emergency landing in THR due to a (false) fire warning - and then struggled to find a way to pay for the fuel they needed (although I don't think they asked the passengers to contribute, on that occasion).
In the NW case, I'm surprised they couldn't have just asked KL (who had regular operations in THR) - but for the current AF case, I'm not sure any SkyTeam partners still serve DAM...
#15
KLflyerRalph , Aug 16, 2012 12:23 pm
TodaySeems like a flight on one of those near-broke Indian carriers!