Go Back   FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Airlines and Mileage Programs > Air France, KLM, and Other Partners | Flying Blue > Air France Frequence Plus
Sign in using an external account

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old Aug 15, 12, 3:10 pm   #1
Moderator: Flying Blue (Air France & KLM), France and TravelBuzz!
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Paris, France, AF F+ Rouge pour toujours, Flying Blue whatever, LH back to SEN, HHonors Gold, SPG Plat, formerly proud SCC Executive, now IC Royal Ambassador, BA down to Silver
Posts: 11,306
Air France flight, diverted from BEY to AMM[, has landed at LCA]

Source: LCI (in French)

According to airport sources in BEY, Air France flight management decided to divert a plane flying CDG-BEY to AMM, due to demonstrations blocking the road between the airport and the city.
JOUY31 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 15, 12, 3:50 pm   #2
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere between 0 and 13,000 metres high
Programs: AF/KL Life Plat, BA G, A3 G, Aclub Plat, Hilton G, IC Plat Amb, Starwood G, blablablah, etc
Posts: 8,822
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOUY31 View Post
Source: LCI (in French)

According to airport sources in BEY, Air France flight management decided to divert a plane flying CDG-BEY to AMM, due to demonstrations blocking the road between the airport and the city.
Good grief, BEY and AMM are not quite next door to each other, I really wonder what happened to the passengers and hope they were able to safely reach their destination very quickly!
orbitmic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 15, 12, 3:56 pm   #3
KVS
Company Representative - KVS Tool and FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: KVSTool.com
Programs: KVS Availability Tool [✈]
Posts: 11,629
Arrow

But AF did not have any evening BEY flights scheduled on Wed:

[KVS Availability Tool 7.0.3/Diamond - Amadeus: Timetable/NL-BCDF]
Code:
CDG  Paris Charles De Gaulle FR [LFPG]
BEY  Beirut Rafic Hariri Intl LB [OLBA]
MON  13 Aug 2012 - 20 Aug 2012

Carrier    Flight  From  Depart    To    Arrive    A/C  St  Frequency | Dur'n | Dep T | Arr T | Effect | Ending | Exceptions
---------  ------  ----  --------  ----  --------  ---  --  ----------------------------------------------------------------
AF         566     CDG   09:00     BEY   14:05     77W  0   1234567     04:05      2F       -   25 Mar   16 Sep
AF/ME      564     CDG   10:30     BEY   15:45     332  0   1234567     04:15      2F       -   25 Mar   16 Sep
AF/ME      568     CDG   13:40     BEY   18:55     332  0   1234567     04:15      2F       -   25 Mar   16 Sep
AF         562     CDG   16:30     BEY   21:45     EQV  0   12-4567     04:15      2F       -   13 Aug   20 Aug
AF         7662    CDG   09:35     MRS   11:00     319  0   --3--67     08:40      2F       4   27 Jun   02 Sep
 -> AF     4390    MRS   14:30     BEY   19:15     320  0                           1       -
AF         7672    CDG   08:35     MRS   10:00     320  0   --3--67     09:40      2F       4   27 Jun   02 Sep
 -> AF     4390    MRS   14:30     BEY   19:15     320  0                           1       -
AF         1148    CDG   07:40     BCN   09:20     320  0   -----6-     10:35      2F       1   21 Jul   01 Sep
 -> AF     4335    BCN   11:25     MRS   12:35     319  0                           1       3
 -> AF     4390    MRS   14:30     BEY   19:15     320  0                           1       -
AF         7620    CDG   07:40     BOD   08:55     321  0   --3----     10:35      2F       B   11 Jul   22 Aug
 -> AF     7603    BOD   11:40     MRS   12:45     319  0                           B       4
 -> AF     4390    MRS   14:30     BEY   19:15     320  0                           1       -
AF         1240    CDG   07:25     AMS   08:40     EQV  0   --3--67     10:50      2F       -   13 Aug   20 Aug
 -> AF/##  8281    AMS   09:20     MRS   11:20     E90  0                           -       4
 -> AF     4390    MRS   14:30     BEY   19:15     320  0                           1       -
AF         1126    CDG   07:20     VCE   09:00     319  0   -----6-     10:55      2D       -   14 Jul   01 Sep
 -> AF     4333    VCE   09:35     MRS   11:00     319  0                           -       3
 -> AF     4390    MRS   14:30     BEY   19:15     320  0                           1       -
AF         7660    CDG   07:20     MRS   08:45     EQV  0   --3--67     10:55      2F       4   13 Aug   20 Aug
 -> AF     4390    MRS   14:30     BEY   19:15     320  0                           1       -
__________________
«····· ✈ ✈ ✈ ·····» [KVS Availability Tool: Main Thread]
KVS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 15, 12, 4:17 pm   #4
Moderator: Flying Blue (Air France & KLM), France and TravelBuzz!
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Paris, France, AF F+ Rouge pour toujours, Flying Blue whatever, LH back to SEN, HHonors Gold, SPG Plat, formerly proud SCC Executive, now IC Royal Ambassador, BA down to Silver
Posts: 11,306
According to some twitter feeds (Marina Tymen, who was one of our gracious hosts at the CDG DO), AF flight 562, which departed from CDG at 16:49 (Paris time) and is operated with an A330-200 (F-GZCK), has refueled in DAM (closer than AMM) and is now headed to or has landed at LCA.

Last edited by JOUY31; Aug 16, 12 at 12:06 am.. Reason: flight number corrected
JOUY31 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 15, 12, 11:36 pm   #5
Moderator: Flying Blue (Air France & KLM), France and TravelBuzz!
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Paris, France, AF F+ Rouge pour toujours, Flying Blue whatever, LH back to SEN, HHonors Gold, SPG Plat, formerly proud SCC Executive, now IC Royal Ambassador, BA down to Silver
Posts: 11,306
The aircraft is scheduled to leave LCA for BEY at 2:40 PM and arrive at 3:25 PM (Paris time).

Last edited by JOUY31; Aug 15, 12 at 11:46 pm..
JOUY31 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 16, 12, 2:11 am   #6
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: Flying Blue (plat), Miles&More, Best Western Rewards
Posts: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by orbitmic View Post
I really wonder what happened to the passengers
Maybe they'll get a credit of 3 status flights ? How lucky ;-)
Nico40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 16, 12, 2:21 am   #7
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: BA Gold, A3 *G, AB Gold, EI Prestige, LH *S, KL Silver
Posts: 9,863
Quote:
Originally Posted by KVS View Post
But AF did not have any evening BEY flights scheduled on Wed:
I guess KVS is wrong, then.

__________________
2014: AMS BNE DOH DUS EWR JFK LGW LHR MAD MEL ORK PER SYD
irishguy28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 16, 12, 3:32 am   #8
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: PARIS (France)
Programs: AF/KLM FB Plat|InterContinental Plat RA|HHonnors VIP Gold|A Club Sofitel Plat|AMEX Plat|Visa Plat
Posts: 6,885
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOUY31 View Post
Source: LCI (in French)
In English
nicolas75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 16, 12, 7:05 am   #9
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: LX HON, AFKL Plat, EK Plat, QR Plat, BA Gold, EY Gold, Eurostar Carte Blanche, CFF Demi tarif
Posts: 3,569
Air France flight, diverted from BEY to AMM[, has landed at LCA]

I'd really like to learn more details about what has really happened. What is known for a fact is that last night some protesters blocked the airport road, that the flight therefore didn't want to land in Beirut but wanted to deviate to Amman. Running out of fuel it instead changed plans again and diverted to Damascus instead where I refilled. It later changed plans once more and continued and went to Larnaca.

This raises a number of questions of judgement, for which there might be good reasons but that's why I would like to learn more:

1. What was it in Beirut that was deemed so dangerous by Air France to justify a deviation, whilst *no* other company deviated its flights? Not Lufthansa, not Alitalia, not British Airways/bmi, none of the airlines from the Middle East? Surely some of them are scheduled to land later than Air France, by which time the incident may have been over - but if it was over, why then didn't the plane fly from Damascus to Beirut but to Larnaca? Also, the time Air France decided to deviate its flight is about the time when other flights of above mentioned airlines take off from Europe, yet none of them decided to delay, cancel or deviate their flights? So what was it that made AF decide not to land in Beirut? Who gave the information about blocked airport route: Air France operations in Paris, AF in Beirut, Beirut ATC? Who took part in the assessment of the situation and the decision to deviate?

2. It is one thing not to land in Beirut because it is deemed an insecure place, but then to chose Damascus instead is interesting. Again, what was behind that choice? Was it only on the way to Amman that the crew realised that they didn't have enough fuel and needed to refuel in Damascus? That would say a lot about the crew's (in)ability to properly manage its flight and fuel. If Amman was not certain to be in the plane's range from the start, then why not go to Larnaca straight away?

3. Also, once refuelled in Damascus, why then not continue to Amman but change plans and go to Larnaca instead? Larnaca might objectively be the more suitable deviation airport (eg for visa issues), but then why try Amman first?

4. Having spoken to someone who had a business partner on the flight it *seems* that in Damascus pax and crew were asked to raise money to pay for the fuel. I personally find that completely unbelievable (smells like an urban legend to me), but can someone confirm? Whilst AF no longer serves Damascus, surely there are procedures in place that kick in when the airline must pay for things like fuel or passenger services at deviation airports that are not part of its network. Don't know, Captain has a credit card or Air France has a line with the airport and fuel suppliers? Maybe someone can clarify
San Gottardo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 16, 12, 7:19 am   #10
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: BA Gold, A3 *G, AB Gold, EI Prestige, LH *S, KL Silver
Posts: 9,863
Quote:
Originally Posted by San Gottardo View Post
4. Having spoken to someone who had a business partner on the flight it *seems* that in Damascus pax and crew were asked to raise money to pay for the fuel. I personally find that completely unbelievable (smells like an urban legend to me), but can someone confirm? Whilst AF no longer serves Damascus, surely there are procedures in place that kick in when the airline must pay for things like fuel or passenger services at deviation airports that are not part of its network. Don't know, Captain has a credit card or Air France has a line with the airport and fuel suppliers? Maybe someone can clarify
Given the situation on the ground in Syria, it really wouldn't surprise me.

Air France probably does not have a procedure in place for a plane arriving at a point it no longer serves. Depending on who the airport operator is, or the fuel supplier, then it is likely/possible that in Damascus these are entities with which Air France has no dealings with at all. (By this I mean that Air France may not do business with these companies at ANY airport, and therefore there is no current contract or relationship between them that could be used to grease the wheels of this unexpected transaction). Or it could just be that they merely wanted payment up front, which the Air France crew were not able to meet.

It does strike one as rather strange that a reputable company that should be good for the money is treated like that. Such stories typically only surface about carriers that are in trouble and where those expected to supply fuel can rightly worry that they would never subsequently see payment.

It could be true! It will be interesting to see if any more details become known. You say "pax and crew were asked to raise payment". Did they? There must be further details from this source of yours.
__________________
2014: AMS BNE DOH DUS EWR JFK LGW LHR MAD MEL ORK PER SYD
irishguy28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 16, 12, 8:45 am   #11
Moderator: Flying Blue (Air France & KLM), France and TravelBuzz!
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Paris, France, AF F+ Rouge pour toujours, Flying Blue whatever, LH back to SEN, HHonors Gold, SPG Plat, formerly proud SCC Executive, now IC Royal Ambassador, BA down to Silver
Posts: 11,306
Source: Le Telegramme

Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Telegramme
(...)
En fait, ce déroutement n'a pas été simple. "La situation s'est dégradée rapidement pendant la phase d'approche à Beyrouth, ce qui a conduit la compagnie à décider d'un déroutement sur Amman, ce qui apparaissait alors comme la meilleure solution", a expliqué le directeur de permanence à Air France, Pierre Caussade.

Damas seule solution pour faire le plein
"Mais le commandement de bord n'a pas pu obtenir du contrôle aérien du secteur l'autorisation d'emprunter une trajectoire directe sur Amman. En fin de compte, avec le carburant restant, le seul aéroport à portée a été Damas", a ajouté un commandant de bord, porte-parole des opérations aériennes de la compagnie.

Bien qu'Air France ne desserve plus l'escale de Damas, l'avion a pu faire le plein en deux heures avant de repartir sur Chypre, avec ses 174 passagers et 11 membres d'équipage.
JOUY31 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 16, 12, 10:25 am   #12
Moderator: Flying Blue (Air France & KLM), France and TravelBuzz!
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Paris, France, AF F+ Rouge pour toujours, Flying Blue whatever, LH back to SEN, HHonors Gold, SPG Plat, formerly proud SCC Executive, now IC Royal Ambassador, BA down to Silver
Posts: 11,306
Source: Le Figaro

Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Figaro
L'équipage du vol Air France Paris-Beyrouth qui a dû faire escale mercredi à Damas pour se ravitailler en carburant a demandé à ses passagers de quelle somme d'argent ils disposaient pour régler le plein si besoin, a-t-on appris auprès de la compagnie. Mais l'entreprise a finalement réglé elle-même la somme demandée par les autorités aéroportuaires de la capitale syrienne.

Un vol Air France parti mercredi soir de Paris pour Beyrouth, et avec 174 passagers à bord, a dû être dérouté pour raisons de sécurité, et a fait escale à Damas pendant deux heures pour faire le plein de kérosène. "Par mesure de précaution et d'anticipation, l'équipage a procédé au recensement des disponibilités d'avoirs en liquide des passagers pour payer le plein de carburant en liquide", a dit à Reuters une porte-parole d'Air France. "En définitive, Air France a pu s'acquitter elle-même du montant du plein de carburant", a-t-elle ajouté, sans préciser la facture ni le moyen par lequel Air France l'a finalement réglé.
Short and loose translation:
As a precautionary measure, the crew asked what cash passengers had available, if they had to pay for fuel in cash, according to an Air France spokesperson, quoted by Reuters. Ultimately, Air France managed to pay for the fuel. The payment mode and the amount were not specified.

Last edited by JOUY31; Aug 16, 12 at 10:31 am..
JOUY31 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 16, 12, 11:25 am   #13
KVS
Company Representative - KVS Tool and FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: KVSTool.com
Programs: KVS Availability Tool [✈]
Posts: 11,629
Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by irishguy28 View Post
I guess KVS is wrong, then.
Interestingly enough, AF did not enter a diversion into the system. Instead, they removed the CDG-BEY flight from the Timetable (yesterday), and then scheduled a 22+ hour long CDG-DAM flight with 2 stops (today):

[KVS Availability Tool 7.0.3/Diamond - Amadeus: Timetable/NL-BCDF]
Code:
CDG  Paris Charles De Gaulle FR [LFPG]
BEY  Beirut Rafic Hariri Intl LB [OLBA]
MON  13 Aug 2012 - 20 Aug 2012

Carrier    Flight  From  Depart    To    Arrive    A/C  St  Frequency | Dur'n | Dep T | Arr T | Effect | Ending | Exceptions
---------  ------  ----  --------  ----  --------  ---  --  ----------------------------------------------------------------
AF         566     CDG   09:00     BEY   14:05     77W  0   1234567     04:05      2F       -   25 Mar   16 Sep
AF         562     CDG   16:30     BEY   21:45     EQV  0   12-4567     04:15      2F       -   13 Aug   20 Aug
AF         562     CDG   16:34     BEY   16:25 +1  332  2   --3----     22:51      2F       -   15 Aug   15 Aug
[KVS Availability Tool 7.0.3/Diamond - Amadeus Operational Info: AF 562/15 Aug 2012]
Code:
                 Planned Flight Info
Segment          Departure  Arrival    Duration
-------          ---------  ---------  --------
CDG-DAM          16:34/Wed  22:00/Wed  04:26
DAM-LCA          00:25/Thu  01:25/Thu  01:00
LCA-BEY          15:40/Thu  16:25/Thu  00:45

Location  Time   Operational Event
--------  -----  ---------------------------
CDG       16:35  ESTIMATED TIME OF DEPARTURE
CDG       16:34  LEFT THE GATE
CDG       16:49  TOOK OFF
DAM       22:00  AIRCRAFT LANDED
DAM       22:12  ARRIVED
LCA       17:01  LEFT THE GATE
LCA       17:05  TOOK OFF
BEY       17:33  ESTIMATED TIME OF ARRIVAL
BEY       17:32  AIRCRAFT LANDED
BEY       17:38  ARRIVED

Segment          Flight Note
-------          ---------------------------------------------
CDG-DAM          AIRCRAFT OWNER AIR FRANCE
DAM-LCA          AIRCRAFT OWNER AIR FRANCE
LCA-BEY          AIRCRAFT OWNER AIR FRANCE
CDG-DAM          COCKPIT CREW AIR FRANCE
DAM-LCA          COCKPIT CREW AIR FRANCE
LCA-BEY          COCKPIT CREW AIR FRANCE
CDG-DAM          CABIN CREW AIR FRANCE
DAM-LCA          CABIN CREW AIR FRANCE
LCA-BEY          CABIN CREW AIR FRANCE
                 ENTIRE FLT- MEMBER OF SKYTEAM
CDG-DAM          DEPARTS TERMINAL 2F
CDG-LCA          CLASSES SHOWN JCDIZOWSAYBMUKHLQTENRVXG
CDG-BEY          CLASSES SHOWN JCDIZOWSAYBMUKHLQTENRVXG
DAM-BEY          CLASSES SHOWN JCDIZOWSAYBMUKHLQTENRVXG
                 ENTIRE FLT-   7/ DUTY FREE SALES
                 ENTIRE FLT-  15/ IN-SEAT VIDEO PLAYER/LIBRARY
                 ENTIRE FLT-  ET/ ELECTRONIC TKT CANDIDATE
                 DEPARTS TERMINAL 2F
__________________
«····· ✈ ✈ ✈ ·····» [KVS Availability Tool: Main Thread]
KVS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 16, 12, 12:07 pm   #14
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Programs: FB Plat
Posts: 677
Reuters has an article in English: Air France asks passengers for refuel cash at Damascus stop

As irishguy28 says, it seems airlines may not have procedures in place to pay for fuel in some locations where they do not normally land - especially if relations between the two countries involved are strained. (The article indicates that the captain normally carries a credit card for such emergencies - but in this case, the credit card was not accepted).

There was a similar incident in 2005 (American jet makes emergency landing), when a NWA DC-10 made an emergency landing in THR due to a (false) fire warning - and then struggled to find a way to pay for the fuel they needed (although I don't think they asked the passengers to contribute, on that occasion).

In the NW case, I'm surprised they couldn't have just asked KL (who had regular operations in THR) - but for the current AF case, I'm not sure any SkyTeam partners still serve DAM...
KQ321 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 16, 12, 12:23 pm   #15
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Tilburg, the Netherlands. Airport is AMS
Programs: Aerolineas Platinum/ST Elite+, China Airlines Emerald/ST+, TK Elite/*G, Marriot Silver
Posts: 3,797
Seems like a flight on one of those near-broke Indian carriers!
KLflyerRalph is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 4:15 am.




SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.