Location: YYZ; AC SE * DL PM * UA 1P * CO GM * AA Gold * BD B+ * HH Diamond * SPG Platinum * Queen's 92
Posts: 5,378
Please do not label other posters
The title of this thread is "Complete Operational Meltdown, AC 992, Jul.01 MEX-YYZ", not "let's apply unhelpful labels and pass personal comments about other posters and their motivations."
This applies both to posters criticizing other posters such as the OP for their views/experiences (rather than the views themselves), and those who feel it is helpful to label respondents as "apologists"/"defenders"/etc.
"apologist"/"defender" is the opposite of "whiner".
The latter is not appreciated by those it is applied to. The reverse also applies.
Simon
Moderator - AC/AE
__________________
2009: AC 123623; DL 95466; CO 49557; UA 41703; AA 27957; BD 5322
2008: AC 181539; DL 75700; CO 52794; UA 51414; BD 1700
Complete Operational Meltdown, AC 992, Jul.01, MEX-YYZ
OMG I'm sure the world will stop!
I don't even think that a single aircraft, 8 hours late comes close to 'operational meltdown'. That's reserved when dozens (or hundreds) of flights are late, or people spend an extra day on the tarmac.
As for 'demanding' the difference between the day time vs redeye flight, OMG, let's check ITA and see what the difference is;
sample future date (aug 25) the three cheapest flights;
US Air; MEX-PHX-PHL-YYZ (redeye PHX-PHL) $240 (+ $25 for luggage)
Air Canada: MEX-YYZ daytime $281
AeroMexico: MEX-YYZ evening $282
so, by the time you've included the luggage fee, I hope you have great success getting the difference between the $265 redeye and $281 AC flight. Did I mention the US Air alternative is 16h5m, vs 4h45m + 8h delay = 12h45m.
Programs: Air Canada Aeroplan, Delta SkyMiles, Southwest Rapid Rewards
Posts: 189
Fares
And where did I post that we paid $281 on the AC flight??? The fare paid was $200 more than that....so, corresponds to approx. $200 differential. Just because a fare is "advertised" doesn't mean that it was available on that given date.
Read the heading -- it was a complete operational meltdown pertaining to that particular flight, a fact that has been confirmed by another FTer. It did NOT read "complete operational meltdown of the company".
The meltdown continued with the fact that not every passenger, in the haste to make alternate arrangements or get home ex YYZ was given a voucher -- a voucher for which one then has to jump through needless hoops to redeem as outlined earlier, as compared to DL -- because the GA should have made an announcement on the PA upon arrival so that everyone knew to pick 1 up...now, some of them still have to write in to AC and ask for them.
To add insult to injury, at the very least, after a 9+ hr delay, they could have waived the charges for on-board food, especially even more in light of the fact, as was reported, the IFE was inoperable as well. Let's rub it in the faces of the pax just a little more how much we don't really care for their patronage.
In extraordinary circumstances, a smile and an apology goes a long way. The fact that the MEX staff was morose and uncommunicative to begin with, started the ball rolling on the wrong foot. All that had to be done to minimize the complaints from mushrooming would have been:
1)- Regular updates on the status of the aircraft inbound and outbound times
2)- Announcing that all onward connections were being looked after by YYZ
staff and not to worry
3)- Announce that YYZ staff would hand out MCOs (rather than 2 separate
piddly amounts), and make it meaningful at $200USD, comparable to DL
4)- Make an on-board apology from the flight deck and cater the flight
fully
It comes down to communications, and the lack thereof. Keep people apprised and make it sound like you really care, and most people will be understanding. Look like you don't give a damn and that somehow my patronage is taking up your time and I will be taking my business elsewhere.
How much would #1 and #2 above have cost? Nothing
How much extra would #3 and #4 cost? A break-even proposition or come out on the plus side of the cost/benefit analysis, since there would be greater repeat patronage vs those pax who will not return.
Watch Calin's YouTube "empowerment" video with Priscille Leblanc...and then tell me which employees on July 01/02 showed their application of "empowerment".
Location: YYC, AS MVP til 2007 (or 2061!), AC Elite (again), UA Basic, AA Basic, SPG Gold, FPC Platinum, HH Gold, Hertz Presidents Circle
Posts: 2,596
Its not the fact that the flight to YYZ was simply late, its the poor information and handling by both UA agents at MEX and AC agents upon our arrival in YYZ for our missed connections.
I never commented on the price difference between the red-eye and day time flight because I haven't really noticed one with AC ever before - I am not sure they are even treated differently fare wise anymore.
And I am finally feeling like myself now after a great sleep in my own bed last night. I will be doing the letter to AC at some point over the weekend.
I try to keep calm, when I'm delayed, getting all worked up about a delay is seriously bad for the blood pressure. And getting worked up about someone elses delay is well...........
Location: YQB, AC*SE, Flying Blue Ivory, AAdvantage Basic
Posts: 1,440
Quote:
Originally Posted by PointWeasel
Its not the fact that the flight to YYZ was simply late, its the poor information and handling by both UA agents at MEX and AC agents upon our arrival in YYZ for our missed connections.
Holy smoke ! You managed to summarize the entire situation in a few well-drafted lines of text.
The "meltdown" hyperbole isn't half as efficient in getting the message across.
I'm sure your complaint letter will garner some attention, and hopefully some follow-up action, from AC after this less than optimal episode.....which we can surely say is an exception and not the rule.......
Rants don't generally get the job done and distract attention away from the real issues. Oh well.........<shrug>
To add insult to injury, at the very least, after a 9+ hr delay, they could have waived the charges for on-board food, especially even more in light of the fact, as was reported, the IFE was inoperable as well. Let's rub it in the faces of the pax just a little more how much we don't really care for their patronage.
Watch Calin's YouTube "empowerment" video with Priscille Leblanc...and then tell me which employees on July 01/02 showed their application of "empowerment".
I often travelled through MEX when I had my client there not to mention the times my other client had offices in SJO and I would transit through MEX to catch the AC flight -- this was prior to 2004.
There is someone that I still keep in touch with that did work for UA at MEX at one time. She had introduced me to the Station Mgr (back in 2002). She did tell me that UA took direction from the Station Mgr on what they could or could not do.
As far as AC, the station manager had authority here to offer something to the passengers.
In Montie Brewer's letter to the Gazette on 06APR, 2008, in defending the then recently announced OMW service, he stated:
Quote:
There are two types of events can disrupt an air journey.
The first are those within an airline's control, such as a mechancial issue that preents a plane from being ready. In these cases, Air Canada takes care of all its customers, including providing meal vouchers and hotel, if necessary. We have always done this and we will continue to do this for all our customers (my bolding)
Just the facts: In the case of delays caused by Air Canada which are expected to last longer than 4 hours, we will offer a voucher for use at an airport restaurant or for our Onboard Café service. We will also communicate with you at regular intervals to provide an update on the flight status with the latest, most accurate information available. In the case of an unplanned overnight stay caused by Air Canada, we will provide out-of-town customers with meal vouchers, hotel accommodation and transportation to and from the airport.
Behind the facts:
This is, without a doubt, one of the worst airline experiences, and we do everything we can to avoid them. Nevertheless, long delays do happen. We can't control the weather, power outages, acts of God, wars, riots and other such circumstances, traffic congestion, airport construction or any security-related situations. In these cases, we won't provide compensation, but we will do our best to get you on your way as quickly as possible.
But when it's our fault, we'll take full responsibility for the situation. If the delay continues for a matter of hours, we will do our best to see that you get something to eat and drink. We will look after out-of-town customers who are trapped at the airport overnight and find them hotel accommodation.
PointWeasel in your letter to AC you should quote Montie Brewer's letter to the editor in the Gazette. Not to mention you should also submit your receipt for the your dinner in Polanco
I've said this before when I commented on my poor experiences with AC in 2001 when I flew 260k+ on AC. Getting me to A to B is what an airline is suppose to do. However, the importance an airline thinks of their customers is always evident during IROPs -- both in situations where they have had not control (i.e. weather) and situations of their own making. When you think you don't have follow your own rules because there is no competition (and in some cases that is the situation) words are just that -- words with no intent to follow through.
This type of thing happens- never fun- complete operational meltdown sounds like a bit of an exaggeration.
Just an update for PointWeasel and his excellent TR:
I am sitting in the RCC right now- the internet is indeed free- you simply have to ask for a password and username at the front desk. The lounge is quite nice I think- on par with most MLL- and it has an excellent view of the runway from the part to the left when you walk in (you can go left or right). The agents here are quite friendly too- while I was digging for my card- he looked at my LH boarding pass and said- no I can see you are OK- welcome.
Location: YYC, AS MVP til 2007 (or 2061!), AC Elite (again), UA Basic, AA Basic, SPG Gold, FPC Platinum, HH Gold, Hertz Presidents Circle
Posts: 2,596
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRAVELSIG
Just an update for PointWeasel and his excellent TR:
I am sitting in the RCC right now- the internet is indeed free- you simply have to ask for a password and username at the front desk. The lounge is quite nice I think- on par with most MLL- and it has an excellent view of the runway from the part to the left when you walk in (you can go left or right). The agents here are quite friendly too- while I was digging for my card- he looked at my LH boarding pass and said- no I can see you are OK- welcome.
Left hand side?!? I'm totally embarrased now. I turned right thru the glass/wood doors and thought that was it. I had no idea that there was comp wifi (upon request) and that would have brightened my mood quite a bit given the situation - but why no sign or something letting us know?
Left hand side?!? I'm totally embarrased now. I turned right thru the glass/wood doors and thought that was it. I had no idea that there was comp wifi (upon request) and that would have brightened my mood quite a bit given the situation - but why no sign or something letting us know?
Are there snacks on the left side Travelsig?
Yes- I am here now- and there are snacks. The finger sandwiches are quite good- however- there is a woman here (not a child) who picked up each one of them and squeezed them like fruit and then put them down- really gross- so I am not eating anymore. I wouldn't come here for dinner....
Anyway- in a lot of Latin America the UA RCCs work like this- also EZE you have to ask for a code at the checkin counter. No idea why they don't just post it on the wall- given there are literally hundreds of little slips of paper with identical codes- kind of like fortune cookies.
The left hand side, by the way, is much smaller than the right hand side- it is long and narrow- but it has a good view of the runway so great for plane spotters like me.
Location: YYC, AS MVP til 2007 (or 2061!), AC Elite (again), UA Basic, AA Basic, SPG Gold, FPC Platinum, HH Gold, Hertz Presidents Circle
Posts: 2,596
Quote:
Originally Posted by mboca28
yesterday UA computers down for 4 hrs in ORD = complete operational meltdown
one late flight from a 3rd world country= give me a break
Well I basically agree with your distinction between UA's bad morning in ORD yesterday and an 8.5 hr delayed flight - the term "third world" is, well, quite outdated - the term used for a number of decades now is simply "developing" as in Mexico is a developing country. That being said, not sure why you would even raise this issue as it really has no bearing on the 01 JUL problems.
Another interesting detail I just recalled from my early am YUL-MEX nonstop last Sunday was the 4 deportees on board that were escorted by a Canada Immigration officer to the aircraft door. Haven't seen that before on any of my international flights.
I was planning a return to DF at monthend and on 01AUG both the YUL-MEX and YYZ-MEX nonstops are nearly sold out already so the demand is definitely back and I am contemplating taking MX this time non-stop from YYC. So AC has competition, not just in the YUL-MEX and YYZ-MEX markets but also the MX routes like YEG-MEX(3 flts weekly), YYC-MEX (4 flts weekly) and YVR-MEX (10 flts weekly) and the odd JL YVR-MEX (2 flts weekly) so the competition is there. Bear in mind that those of us not in the centre of the universe, namely Toronto and Montreal have to either overnight or take the redeye to connect with AC right now so it takes an extra effort to fly with AC, at least in my case.
Some random trivia: I recall roughly 6 or 7 years ago that AC announced YVR-MEX nonstop service but it didn't last or even start (I recall the ads in the Vancouver Sun) and now the market has essentially been handed over to MX and the JL tag-on.
Another thought - if AC indeed has a MEX station manager (no one has confirmed yet I believe) then where the heck was he/she during this 8.5 hour delay?
Programs: Air Canada Aeroplan, Delta SkyMiles, Southwest Rapid Rewards
Posts: 189
Mexico
Excellent point and a question to raise, PointWeasel...where, exactly, was this phantom Station Manager, if, in fact, there is one. Who was in charge??? When Ops knew about this fiasco, did they bother to notify the local District Manager, Cristina Vazquez, and, if she was aware, as AC's point person in Mexico, why wasn't she coordinating efforts with the airport and the outsourced contractors to provide better communications and more effective compensation?
Please do not label other posters
have to either overnight or take the redeye to connect with AC right now so it takes an extra effort to fly with AC, at least in my case. 
