Complete Operational Meltdown, AC 992, Jul.01, MEX-YYZ

[PointWeasel]

Originally Posted by keithguy

My understanding is AC at MEX is handled by UA agents... they still might not care, but it's not because of lack of experience.

It's fun to play armchair quarterback though, especially when knowledge of the facts is limited.

Given that I was actually on this flight, here are the facts:

- when I checked the fight status online from my hotel in the morning the flight was delayed from 915 am to 950 am
- when I got back to the hotel I had a 'gut' feeling to check again and the delay had been pushed to 655 pm
- I received no emails or text from AC whatsoever, which is par for the course, unfortunately
- I took a taxi from the hotel at 430 pm and arrived at MEX a few minutes before 5 pm
- the UA-staffed AC counter (between LH and AS counters) were open with just one very upset pax talking to the UA agent who was on the phone. I looked for the Exec Class line but there wasn't one, only Clase Turista was the sign displayed
- I stood there for 5 mins (no other pax around) and wasn't even acknowledged by the agent hanging around the other agent on the phone
- when the upset pax walked away from the counter, the UA agents stood there talking and then turned their backs on me
- I took the liberty of approaching the counter and enquired as to which counter was Clase Ejecutiva and the senior female agent replied "which airline are you looking for?"
- I presented my Elite card and she said "oh, on today's flight?"
- She printed my boarding pass without saying a word to me and when I got it I happened to notice 810 pm for the boarding time.
- I asked the agent what was going on and only then did she comment "the flight left Toronto and turned around due to a mechanical problem and the new departure time is 855 pm"
- Given that it was now shortly after 5 pm, I was not amused. No communication whatsoever, no offer to reroute, nothing. No meal voucher, no connection information to YYC now that I would not be at work on time.
- The agent says "well, you are invited to visit the UA RCC" (more on that later)
- I decided to check my bag and head back in a taxi to Polanco for dinner and enjoy my additional time in DF
- I left Polanco for MEX around 730 pm and arrived at 8 pm, the FIDS info showed a departure time of 9 pm now so I thought I'd check out the recently renovated RCC. Security was quiet so breezed through to the lounge and the UA agent, while pleasant, asked if I was in Business Class.
- I must have had a dumbfounded look on my face and replied "yes, I am" and he mumbled something inaudible so I pointed to the portion of the boarding pass that clearly says "J" and "Executive Class". He then said "ok" and mentioned that the aircraft from YYZ was expected to arrived at 825 pm.
- The RCC was underwhelming to put it mildly. No view, no snacks, no ice, no comp internet and no pcs. I actually left for the gate area.
- I walked the 3 miles or so to the gate area where BA's 747 and IB's A340 were in the boarding process sat down at Gate 30 (after Starbucks-related pit stop) and at around 838 pm the first pax came off the aircraft and they looked very tired and cranky. There were all handed slips of paper by the UA agents as they deplaned (which turned out to be EMCOs).
- The aircraft was groomed and we boarded a couple minutes after 9 pm. We were also handed the same MCOs - a whopping $50 CAD - regardless of whether you were in J or Y.
- We boarded quickly and pushed back around 930 pm. We taxied for a bit and 15 mins later we were back at the gate.
- The captain came on the PA to say that they needed maintenance to check something out and we would depart with 15-20 mins.
- Shortly after 10 pm the captain came back on to say the needed to contact Montreal for further assistance with the problem.
- At this point I called the AC Elite line from my seat and the res agent said the new departure time was 1030 pm.
- Whislt this was going on a DF school group with their chaperones were being texted and called by their parents with back and forth updates and everyone became more concerned about the "mechanical issue" with the aircraft. They all stood up, took out their carry ons, and marched towards to the front of aircraft. The UA gate agent who was on board stopped them and a heated discussion took place.
- They announced that the problem had been fixed at 1105 pm and we pushed back, taking off at 1119 pm MEX time.
- The FA in J was pleasant and very apologetic. I couldn't help but ask about the crew time-out issue and she replied "we decided to go ahead and work the flight otherwise it just snowball into tomorrow for everyone on board". I thought she was very professional in the way she answered everything and we then asked "so...is the IFE on the fritz by chance?"
- She smiled and shook her head saying "when they were restarting the aircraft systems over and over, the IFE didn't come back on for half the plane and they didn't want to chance it again". The weird thing was they didn't make an announcement about no IFE either.
- We arrived touched down in YYZ at 413 am and quickly pulled up at the gate where an AC ground agent annouced that connecting BPs would be handed out at the top of the escalator.
- There were agents handing out more EMCOs, this time everyone got $75 ones, regardless of J or Y
- They were handing out 630 am BPs for YUL and 7 am BPs for YOW but nothing else. The agent said none were issued for YYC or YVR.
- Customs was less than impressed to see us.
- The bags took over 30 mins to arrive on the belt (only flight in the hall at this ungodly hour other than GRU an hour after us)
- Proceeded upstairs to the kiosk to checkin for my YYC flight and the kiosk said "see an agent". I used my blackberry to mobile check-in for the 630 am YYC flight but the AC computer had protected me on the 3rd flight of the day for some reason so I was no further ahead.
- Proceeded to the Exec check-in and the agent who had just started her shift said "there's only standby allowed for certain pax". I then mentioned that other cnx pax were given 630 am BPs at the aircraft and she relented and opened a seat for me. Why can't the agents be apologetic and helpful right at the start in situations like this?
- My YYC flight departed early and we arrived at 820 am. Tired and not having showered for almost 24 hrs, I drove to the office for 915 am.

There's the facts.

My issues with the handling of this flight were:
- poor communication from AC when they have all of our contact info, esp us frequent flyers
- UA-handled stations claim to be unable to deal with connecting flight changes, etc (happened in EZE in Feb as well) and are reluctant to offer any further assistance such as rerouting or simple things like a meal voucher
- the creeping delay on this flight is a concern as well, this was an A319M which I believe is the overwater type (I could be wrong) so perhaps there are replacement aircraft readily available
- the FA in J on this flight was quite pleasant and I certainly appreciated the crew choosing to continue on to YYZ rather than stay overnight at MEX
- the handling of the IFE outage was odd though, don't ask, don't tell, imo
- why would the agents meeting our aircraft not have BPs for all of the cnx pax? why just YUL and YOW?
- why does it take 30 mins for the bags from an A319 when we are the only arriving aircraft?!?
- why would the agent want to place me on standby for the 630 am flight when there were open seats?
- 2 EMCOs that must be mailed into YWG refunds? same compensation for both Y and J? odd.

I realize I am rather verbose this afternoon but I am operating on just a few hours sleep instead of my preferred 7.5 laying horizontal.

There u have it.

[mkjr]

the report was very much appreciated...i think some who ripped into the OP need to perhaps reconsider such responses...

[global_happy_traveller]

very professional reporting PointWeasel..... very factual, succinct, non biased but at the same time raised legitiamte concerns......based on what u had described i think its wise to report it to AC regarding the service concerns u had encountered.....

[shuttlerider]

Originally Posted by mkjr

the report was very much appreciated...i think some who ripped into the OP need to perhaps reconsider such responses...

Great report from PointWeasel with many valid points. There's a difference between a factual account from someone who was actually there and the second-hand rants of a third-party-handling-hating uncle.

[dunderhead]

Thank you for your detailed report ,which corrorbates to a fuller extent the story that I was receiving from my nephew, much of it via texting. Since I was the one who PAID for the ticket, I have as much right as anyone to comment on the service that was not provided. It is evident from PointWeasel's report that the UA contracted staff were disinterested, poorly trained, offered little in the way of information or apologies, and, in effect, could have cared less for the AC pax...and this is not new....CP handled ML in their 1 year of Canadian service in 1990, and the attitude was the same. I have yet to see a ground handling contractor provide seamless service...I see posts on other threads within this board which indicate that even within the same company, if the station is staffed by their commuter affiliate rather than mainliners, that a different level of service is proffered. So, shuttlerider, the apologist for contracting out, is free to provide examples of exemplary handling on the part of contractors. I am not asking them to go above and beyond...but it is clear that UA treated the AC pax as second-class citizens, providing them with a level of service lower than if they were on UA...just like CP made the ML pax climb the airstairs to the DC9 in the middle of winter rather than assign a gate with a jetway.

Everything that PointWeasel states directs itself to a situation of implosion, since there was little coordination, little communication, and confusion on reprotects and baggage handling upon arrival at YYZ, a situation that they had practically 24hrs by that time to get a handle on.

The only people who were professional the whole day were the crew, and it is heartening to see PointWeasel give them their due. Maintenance screwed up, operations screwed up, UA in MEX and the arrivals handling into YYZ were screwed up too. Watch the YouTube video where Calin talks about the empowerment of people...based on the performance of yesterday/today, I would say that I do not envy his job, because everyone except the flight crew acted as if Bryce Mackasey was still in the Executive Suite. And providing $125CAD in future flight credits that takes one 60-90 days to receive back via YWG Refunds after giving them the cash to help their cash flow problems is adding 1 more hoop to jump and is not competitive given the 9+hrs of delays...compared to DL's $200USD electronic vouchers issued on delays of 4+ hours and that are instantly applied to reservations on their website and which are transferable to anybody of one's choosing, considerably more customer friendly.

[PointWeasel]

Originally Posted by global_happy_traveller

very professional reporting PointWeasel..... very factual, succinct, non biased but at the same time raised legitiamte concerns......based on what u had described i think its wise to report it to AC regarding the service concerns u had encountered.....

I am so tired right now, that I can barely focus on making a quick dinner little own penning a letter to Office of the President.

Just to rebut a couple of the comments above -

- one thing that truly surprised me was the lack of an AC station manager whatsoever. I have met the ones in both GRU and LIM and they really do their utmost to make things go smoothly whereas how does MEX get by without one when there were up to 3 daily AC flight recently and the current sked has 9 weekly flights (YYZ daily, YUL 2x weekly).
- as far as UA treating AC pax as second-class citizens goes, I would surmise that they treat their own pax only marginally better. My friend flew UA MEX-IAD-LAX (the MEX-LAX nonstop was suspended due to H1N1) and said that checkin was just the motions (travelled in UA First) but the inflight service on MEX-IAD was quite good.
- not sure if its my sleep deprived state of mind or not but what really burns me is that AC and Aeroplan can send loads of meaningless emails to us daily about this and that but can't send information concerning a severely delayed flight!

[global_happy_traveller]

having station manager is definitely better - i seen it first hand when SQ ex SFO did not have a station manager vs having one a few months later when i flew the same route again.

i dont know about UA treating other AC pax as second class citizens - have to say i had them several times and they were pretty good - infact even accomodating to upgrade me and put me on an earlier flight without SWU/SSWU or change fees that AC staff would detail on.

i think when u rest enough you should bring it to their attention..... dunno if andrew could help advise this as well....... in my biz (pax transportation) we send anonymous shoppers to check it out first hand..... dunno if AC does that for QC (quality control).

[mkjr]

Originally Posted by shuttlerider

Great report from PointWeasel with many valid points. There's a difference between a factual account from someone who was actually there and the second-hand rants of a third-party-handling-hating uncle.

no there is not IMO...but we will just have to disagree on that...and i could really care less too...funny, PointWeasel was in J and got what I consider to be a p$$$ poor treatment....whatever...i am sure there will be all the AC defenders to the rescue...we have even seen some of them already...

[mkjr]

Originally Posted by PointWeasel

....
- not sure if its my sleep deprived state of mind or not but what really burns me is that AC and Aeroplan can send loads of meaningless emails to us daily about this and that but can't send information concerning a severely delayed flight!

i have never ever had AC ever send an e-mail about a delayed flight....even with all those snow storms in YYZ...they say call ahead...oh flights on time...100% dead wrong...totally useless....

so why do they bother again for your e-mail for updates or your local telephone number....

i remember some AC employee saying we tried you on your contact number...and then they could not tell me which number was called....nice...

[makin'miles]

Last year, AC's local office in Seoul called me to inform that my flight that evening had been delayed three hours (late incoming flight). I had already seen the delay online, but was impressed nonetheless.

I was travelling J (and am Elite), so I doubt they phoned everyone. I understand it would be difficult to provide this sort of service to everyone - particularly in a hub city - but for an outstation like MEX, it shouldn't be difficult to try and contact passengers in the J cabin.

[global_happy_traveller]

Originally Posted by mkjr

no there is not IMO...but we will just have to disagree on that...and i could really care less too...funny, PointWeasel was in J and got what I consider to be a p$$$ poor treatment....whatever...i am sure there will be all the AC defenders to the rescue...we have even seen some of them already...

mkjr....its definitely poor co-ordination on AC/UA's part in MEX - no question about that..... just how people react to the situation that puzzles me!

[pmax]

Originally Posted by makin'miles

Last year, AC's local office in Seoul called me to inform that my flight that evening had been delayed three hours (late incoming flight). I had already seen the delay online, but was impressed nonetheless.

I was travelling J (and am Elite), so I doubt they phoned everyone. I understand it would be difficult to provide this sort of service to everyone - particularly in a hub city - but for an outstation like MEX, it shouldn't be difficult to try and contact passengers in the J cabin.

In ICN there are other issues, like that they don't let you check in until 3h before departure so you have to sit outside until then. Also it's so far away from any hint of civilization.

[AC_flyer]

Feb 2008, my company had a retreat at LAS. About 30 of us were booked on AC Red-eye from LAS to YYZ.

When we got to the Airport, check in was normal and we proceeded to the gate. At half an hour before departure we were told that the flight was delayed 1 hour. However upon checking the GTAA Website, it found that the flight was infact cancelled. The incoming flight had gone to LAX due to heavy winds at LAS. However the GA's were completely not aware of the devlopment. The AC websites were showing a 3 hour delay. Basically we had to force the Gate agents to call someone to get more information to get alternate plans.

After two hours, the flight was finally cancelled and re-scheduled for the next afternoon. We were all provided hotels... But the process were quite messy, but the flight was a full A321.

It seemed to be that the Gate Agents were not informed at all of these delays and subsequent cancellation of the flight. I believe it was a combination of AC not providing the LAS GAs and the LAS GAs were not bothered to call AC HQ to find out the status of the flight.

Something similar might have happened at MEX.

In my experience, it is always nice to be civil, even when you are asking for a supervisor... Sometimes it makes the difference of getting a room at Luxor and getting a room at Motel 6.

[acplt]

With all due respect in this situation the airplane probably waited over LAS for the winds to become more favorable. We do have crosswind limits. A decision was made to proceed to LAX. At that point flight dispatch determines if a return to LAS is feasible based on wind forcast. Crew duty times are taken into account as well and a decision to delay or cancel is made. During a diversion like this there are many things to consider and it does take time to make the correct decision. There is much going on behind the scenes and unfortuantely the passenger agents need to wait for the info as well as the passengers.

[AC_flyer]

Originally Posted by acplt

With all due respect in this situation the airplane probably waited over LAS for the winds to become more favorable. We do have crosswind limits. A decision was made to proceed to LAX. At that point flight dispatch determines if a return to LAS is feasible based on wind forcast. Crew duty times are taken into account as well and a decision to delay or cancel is made. During a diversion like this there are many things to consider and it does take time to make the correct decision. There is much going on behind the scenes and unfortuantely the passenger agents need to wait for the info as well as the passengers.

Actually I do understand the process with crew duty times and the safety issue. I do not have reason on why the flight was delayed or cancelled. However the GTAA website was already knew that the flight was cancelled and a replacement flight had been scheduled the next day. It took a while before the AC Website, which was even before the Gate Agents. I think one of my colleagues went to the Gate Agent and showed them the status of the flight being cancelled before they took any action to call dispatch....

But I know for a fact there are processes in place for these complicated systems to work.... However all it takes is one person for a step to be missed and for the process to break down. I work in a completely different industry where I have experienced it first hand....

I am just stating that even when going to a situation where there is Brokern process, it is always good to respect the gate agent and show some compassion and you can get things done smoothly, making the situation manageable.

Just my $0.02