jaysona

You're also a lucky man - that no one from TCCA was sitting next to you or close by. Had that been the case, then both you, the FA that saw you and the in charge (if it wasn't the same person) would have had a lot of paper work to fill out upon landing at YYZ. :|

I agree that the rules are pretty silly and useless, but they are the CARs & FARs that rule aviation in North America and until they are changed (it is going to happen, just be patient) just follow them - one day you'll be happy you did - or possibly unhappy that you didn't.

hjohnson

The rules regarding cell phones, at least in the modern era, have little to do with onboard interference and more to do with the havoc your phone, travelling at 500km/hr has on the network on the ground.

In normal situations, your phone can see 2 or 3 cell towers, and the system will connect you to the strongest one. As you drive/walk around, it hands you off from tower to tower, keeping your call/data package going.

When you're in the air, suddenly you are in a radically different situation. Not only are you travelling at upwards 800km/hr, your phone could be picking up hundreds of towers at the same time, all of roughly the same strength. This puts a huge strain on the network as your phone pingpongs around.

The proposed in-flight cell service (and current internet) service works around this by binding your phone to a pico-cell that's located within the aircraft. The plane then relays your link through a dedicated air-to-ground network (go-go internet style) or satellite (trans atlantic stuff).

Shareholder

Read an item in today's or yesterday's Herald Tribune that FAA is re-examining rules for these devices. However, the explanation given for why these things linger is because of what airlines must go through to test and prove there is no interference to aircraft systems from them. Apparently tests must be done on each aircraft type with each device. So for iPhones and iPads it would require each generation to be tested, as it would be for each generation/version of Blackberries and every other type of smart phone. Each airline would have to submit its own test results, done on empty planes of each type it flies...for every type of device! The cost and time becomes prohibitive, which is why no airline has yet applied. Even if the FAA conducts the tests, they will take a long time to complete and cost a fortune.

RCyyz

Ahem ...

YUL_Around_The_World

This is stupid ... Pilots use iPads all the time ... FAA will remove this restriction soon ...

http://www.mactrast.com/2011/12/ipad...gin-on-friday/

Ancien Maestro

The lack of test results and proof of interference has been the case since wireless rules have existed. What is the basis of which cell phones and wireless devices can't be used onboard? The notion that rules are there without merit will continue until scientific evidence is provided having wireless devices on, is dangerous to safety on the plane.

tyberius

I've only ever once with a turned on cell phone gotten a connection with a tower on the ground (brief, surprised me as a text message came in from Slovakia welcoming me to roaming).

Do these phones really have the kind of range that can reach from a plane to the earth reliably?

Furthermore I would be surprised too if the cell towers all had equal strength... inverse square law would apply no?

hjohnson

In the modern era it's actually not as big of an issue because you're right, modern digital phones have much lower powered transmitters than they used to (this is to improve battery life while reducing battery size, and also because cells are now smaller to pack in more customers). In the old days, when these rules were developed, we were still running AMPS (the old analogue standard) which tended to have phones with relatively powerful transmitters.

You're correct in that the inverse square law does apply, but once you're at altitude the relative difference in distances between the towers is much smaller.

threepoint

None of the iPads will be used to transmit & receive - they simply store material loaded onto the hard drive for display.

threepoint

Generally, no. I fly a corporate airplane all the time with my BB on (and transmitting) and have yet to notice the faintest flicker in any of my instruments. I'm able to talk while flying (not yet banned as in driving), but only at altitudes below the flight levels.
I've forgotten at times to turn off the cell when flying commercially, and for the most part, there is no service until very close to the ground. The talk of "wreaking havoc" on the ground networks is debatable; I bet they don't pick up most phones whizzing far overhead.

PhotoJim

What hard drive?

Internal flash memory. But your point is still valid.

The only Apple iDevices that have hard disks in them these days are iPod Classics.

Sopwith

Got busted using my mouse today. First time in quite a while, and I've never had a flight get lost yet. (Maybe they've all been VFR?)

CZBB

I can't believe how selfish people are here. Does it really kill you to not transmit/receive while you're airborne? Really? This is just another DYKWIA thread where you pretend to be a subject expert; and you're taking it out on flight attendants who are following DOT/DOC rules. It's no different than saying "I'm a better driver and my Volvo is safer, therefore I should be allowed to do 160kmph on the Don Valley"

As for interference, I've heard cell phone chatter on an [general] aviation radio (King KX155) on a small plane (when I've forgotten to turn off my phone), so no reason to think it wouldn't happen on a larger one.

Unless you're a specialist in aviation radio, how are you going to guarantee there's no interference?

Also, please pay attention during takeoff/landing, especially those KYKWIA types that used their SE status to take claim an exit row. I will complain to an FA every time if an exit row person is breaking the rules, because they're the ones that we're relying on to pay attention during takeoff/landing.

HerpaYvr

......no I wont saying anything staying quiet this time around

RCyyz

By now, there's enough empirical evidence the strongly indicate that transmit / receive functions don't cause major functional difficiencies on aircraft. On any given day there a number of pax who forget or even "forget" to turn off cell phones and other devices. And yet nothing bad has happened.