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Old Aug 9, 05, 10:28 pm   #1
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
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Speeding Ticket help in BC

So I did some searching and the points raised do not cover my situation.

Got my first speeding ticket in 18 years today Got nailed going 112km in a 90km passing zone going past a slow moving vehicle just outside Williams Lake The officer who got me was driving towards me and it was bad luck more than a trap.

He dropped the ticket from $192 to $138 and I can knock off another $25 if I pay within 30 days bringing to down to $113.

Here's the description on the ticket:

Description of Offense: Speed NO SPEED INDICATED anywhere on the form

Section: 146 (3)

Ticketed Amount: $138.00

Registered Owner Name: They left this blank but did put my name properly on the issued section


Some of the people I know at the hotel here told me that if they do not list any speed on the ticket then you can fight it.

Here are the questions:

Is the ticket even valid if there is not speed indicated.

Since no speed is listed does this just make it a "ticket" and demerit points will not apply? Would I have any grounds to fight this?

Will a ticket that does not list my speed on it affect my insurance as there is not indication of how far over I was?

Those are the questions that come to mind right now. Like I said, never had a ticket and don't know if he lowered this to under 15k over so it's only $$$ or if there are points involved. I can live with the fine but if I can get out of the points that would of course be preferred

Counting the time for Taupo to respond
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Old Aug 9, 05, 10:52 pm   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cattle
Counting the time for Taupo to respond

He is exactly who I think would be the most help. Paging Taupo!
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Old Aug 9, 05, 10:53 pm   #3
 
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According to the BC government web site, you've got 3 points,Speed against highway sign. Since it's only 3 points, there isn't a DPP (driving premium) payable on your insurance. It renews every 12 month period.

http://www.icbc.com/Licensing/lic_fi...ts_appeal.html states
Quote:
Driver penalty points are added to your driving record only when the Courts have convicted you of an offence, or you have plead guilty to one. For this reason, points can not be appealed.

By paying a driving or traffic-related provincial violation ticket fine, either partially or fully, you are admitting that you are guilty. Non-payment within the 30-day ticket payment period is also considered a guilty plea, unless you have registered a dispute.
http://www.icbc.com/Licensing/lic_fi...t_dispute.html gives the procedure for fighting your ticket.
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Old Aug 9, 05, 11:01 pm   #4
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boymimbo
According to the BC government web site, you've got 3 points,Speed against highway sign.
My confusion here is that it only says speeding on my ticket, it doesn't say if it's 5km over or 40km over which makes me wonder if I loose any points.

Quote:
Since it's only 3 points, there isn't a DPP (driving premium) payable on your insurance. It renews every 12 month period.
That is for ICBC premiums but I don't want to call my insurance company in AB and ask about this if I don't have to
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Old Aug 9, 05, 11:08 pm   #5
 
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Hmmmm.... There is a column on the ICBC site that tells you how many points are deducted by the regulation violated. For example, you would have a different number than 146(3) if you were "excessive speeding". For ICBC purposes, I think you get the points if you pay the ticket.

Disputing can be a pain in the butt as you would probably need to go to court in Williams Lake to dispute the ticket.
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Old Aug 9, 05, 11:11 pm   #6
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You can definitely fight it. I've got a lot of experience in this area as well. The ticket was not properly filled out, especially about registered owner name. The police officer was extremely sloppy on this one. (You also didn't mention if he filled out the rest of the ticket properly.)

Of course, just by disputing it, there's about a 33% chance the office won't even show up. (That's my anecdotal percentage.) The only question is that, since I'm assuming it's not in your area of residence, is $113 worth the hassle to come back at a later date to show up at court?
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Old Aug 9, 05, 11:15 pm   #7
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cattle
My confusion here is that it only says speeding on my ticket, it doesn't say if it's 5km over or 40km over which makes me wonder if I loose any points.



That is for ICBC premiums but I don't want to call my insurance company in AB and ask about this if I don't have to
According to what I can figure out, in BC, a violation of section 146(3) - Speed against highway sign - carries a fine of minimum $138. Therefor it doesn't matter what speed you were going (even if it was 1km/h over). The officer is simply stating that you were over the posted limit. Had he left the fine at $192, then you could have argued it down to $138, since he didn't indicate the speed. My guess is that he didn't indicate the speed since he gave you the minimum fine.

As for the demerit points, as far as i can tell, this section carries 3 points, regardless of your speed.

Hope this helps.
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Old Aug 9, 05, 11:58 pm   #8
 
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Perhaps the officer didn't indicate the speed on your ticket because he didn't actually clock you on his radar? You mentioned that the cop was going the other direction, observed you speeding, then pulled you over.....

I had the same thing happen to me in Manitoba. I was speeding along, following a beat up old pickup truck down a deserted road way the heck out in the country. The only other car in sight for (literally) 25 miles was an RCMP officer coming the other way. The cop did a U-turn and pulled me over. She wrote me a ticket with no speed on it.

I paid the ticket as I lived in Ontario at the time and it wasn't bad enough to earn demerit points, but in hindsight there was no possible way for her to have clocked me - I was following the pick-up truck. I'm pretty sure she picked me because a) the truck was old, dirty, beat-up, had local plates and was driven by a very local-looking farmer in a cowboy hat, and b) I was wearing a suit, driving a Mustang, and talking on my cell phone like a good city slicker. No way she could have clocked my car, but she saw us going way too fast and decided to write me a ticket any how. Perhaps the same thing is true for you...?
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Old Aug 10, 05, 12:47 am   #9
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee A Carney
Perhaps the officer didn't indicate the speed on your ticket because he didn't actually clock you on his radar? You mentioned that the cop was going the other direction, observed you speeding, then pulled you over.....

I had the same thing happen to me in Manitoba. I was speeding along, following a beat up old pickup truck down a deserted road way the heck out in the country. The only other car in sight for (literally) 25 miles was an RCMP officer coming the other way. The cop did a U-turn and pulled me over. She wrote me a ticket with no speed on it.

I paid the ticket as I lived in Ontario at the time and it wasn't bad enough to earn demerit points, but in hindsight there was no possible way for her to have clocked me - I was following the pick-up truck. I'm pretty sure she picked me because a) the truck was old, dirty, beat-up, had local plates and was driven by a very local-looking farmer in a cowboy hat, and b) I was wearing a suit, driving a Mustang, and talking on my cell phone like a good city slicker. No way she could have clocked my car, but she saw us going way too fast and decided to write me a ticket any how. Perhaps the same thing is true for you...?
From what I understand of cop cars, they can have there radars "on" for opposing traffic. If they take the clocked speed and subtract their own speed they get your approx speed. However, it is not a speed that can be recorded on a ticket. In this case, it may have given the cop enough to indicate that you were definitely speeding, but not an acurate speed.
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Old Aug 10, 05, 3:32 am   #10
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I would call the local prosecuter and negotiate with him about the points. Technically if you're under "15 over" there should be no points sent to Alberta.Gert that point clear and pay the thing as it will have no effect on your insurance. Welcome to the "speeders anonymous" club.
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Old Aug 10, 05, 4:23 am   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ac3000
From what I understand of cop cars, they can have there radars "on" for opposing traffic. If they take the clocked speed and subtract their own speed they get your approx speed. However, it is not a speed that can be recorded on a ticket. In this case, it may have given the cop enough to indicate that you were definitely speeding, but not an acurate speed.
Police can and do use radar that will clock an approaching vehicle, a vehicle coming down a side road as well as one closing up behind them. This is referred to as a moving radar unit. The speed on the unit can and is recorded on the ticket as these units are designed for this and calibrated and tested regularly. No subtraction of their own speed is necessary (nor would that be accurate as their speedometer is not calibrated and tuned like the radar unit).

As to whether or not he got you speeding - did you notice a white cylindrical object on the dashboard of the cruiser - usually next to the officer's door? It would be about the size of a pop can. That is part of the moving radar unit.
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Old Aug 10, 05, 5:48 am   #12
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It's annoying to get these things but the best advice I got was from the lawyer at the CAA - if you are a member they have a lawyer who can give advice - you should get some. I got a ticket from the Mohawk Tribal Police in New York when we were driving beyond the boundaries of their reserve but they were playing with their radar. They were going in the other direction but pointed out that they had highly accurate radar for either direction (they did). They got me doing 58 mph in a 55 mph zone. My speedometer is metric and there is no way to make such a distinction. They were having a good time laughing in their car and lectured me about the dangers of speeding while admitting that they do it themselves. They held me for quite a while. When I got home, I called the CAA as to how to deal with it. They told me to write a note to the court explaining the circumstances and my view that they were inaccurate. The court reduced the ticket to "failure to obey a traffic device," which carries no demerit points in Canada. But it still cost $120 US. As a by-the-way, I wrote to the governor of New York about how they treat visitors from Canada. He contacted the head of the State Police Division. The police head called me - he said the governor had called him - and apologized - said the Mohawks should not be writing tickets off the reserve except in an emergency and they were playing with their new radar. Then the chief of the Mohawk Police called me and apologized and told me he had taken the car away from the guys who were playing with the radar. But a ticket is a ticket and he can't change it. They get no revenue themselves.

Last edited by B1; Aug 10, 05 at 5:51 am.
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Old Aug 10, 05, 5:56 am   #13
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cattle
So I did some searching and the points raised do not cover my situation.

Got my first speeding ticket in 18 years today Got nailed going 112km in a 90km passing zone going past a slow moving vehicle just outside Williams Lake The officer who got me was driving towards me and it was bad luck more than a trap.

He dropped the ticket from $192 to $138 and I can knock off another $25 if I pay within 30 days bringing to down to $113.

Here's the description on the ticket:

Description of Offense: Speed NO SPEED INDICATED anywhere on the form

Section: 146 (3)

Ticketed Amount: $138.00

Registered Owner Name: They left this blank but did put my name properly on the issued section


Some of the people I know at the hotel here told me that if they do not list any speed on the ticket then you can fight it.

Here are the questions:

Is the ticket even valid if there is not speed indicated.

Since no speed is listed does this just make it a "ticket" and demerit points will not apply? Would I have any grounds to fight this?

Will a ticket that does not list my speed on it affect my insurance as there is not indication of how far over I was?

Those are the questions that come to mind right now. Like I said, never had a ticket and don't know if he lowered this to under 15k over so it's only $$$ or if there are points involved. I can live with the fine but if I can get out of the points that would of course be preferred

Counting the time for Taupo to respond
I've had two speeding tickets in BC from cops who were driving in the other direction. In each case, they did put the speed on the ticket, but I wasn't following anyone so I assume it would be easier to calculate my speed. I believe it's the same offence (and carries the same 3 demerit points) unless you are clocked doing more than 45 km/h over the limit. No effect on your insurance premiums, unless you get a couple more tickets in the near future...

However, let's keep things in perspective. You were speeding, and by your own admission doing more than 20 km/h over the limit (not like B1's example). I know it's annoying, but it doesn't seem that unfair to me.
ReluctantCanadian is offline  
Old Aug 10, 05, 8:11 am   #14
 
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Ticket

Being that you were pulled over by probably a highway patrol RCMP member, do you really thing he filled out the ticket wrong. All that member does each day is.. write tickets. You sped, and broke the law, fess up and pay the consequence. That big number on the sigh does not say "Anywhere in the neighborhood of 90 Km/h"
Radar or not RCMP members are trained in vehicle speed estimation and they're word and judgment holds up in court. Luckily he reduced the fine which is why no speed was written on the ticket.
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Old Aug 10, 05, 8:15 am   #15
 
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I've heard if you ask the cop to see the gun, they're supposed to show it to you, now if you don't think they clocked you, ask them to see the radar gun, if they don't have you clocked, ask them where their proof is, chances are they'll rip up the ticket. I personally have never been caught speeding, but I hear this works.
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