YYZ-CUN - SE on points July 24
#16
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC SEMM / HH Diamond
Posts: 3,140
And if it's J9, especially this close to the flight, then it makes plenty of sense for AC to oversell Y. It seems unlikely that there will be a sudden flurry of J bookings at the last minute (certainly possible, but unlikely) ... so they may as well sell as many tickets as there are seats on the plane. Even if there are zero no-shows, they would still be able to accommodate everyone by giving out op-ups to J.
#17
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: YUL
Programs: ✈ AC 1MM / S100K - SPG Lifetime Platinum = BONVoY Lifetime Titanium
Posts: 1,496
So, I would need an expert flyer account to verify this?
If not, an agent could simply tell me whatever they want?
Don't most people with this benefit simply say , "ok, it's bookable in Revenue on the ac site , it should be available to me as an SE then on points"
If not, an agent could simply tell me whatever they want?
Don't most people with this benefit simply say , "ok, it's bookable in Revenue on the ac site , it should be available to me as an SE then on points"
#18
Join Date: Sep 2005
Programs: AC MM E50 , Former SPG, now Marriott LT Plat
Posts: 6,246
9, but I could not book IKK and AE/AC claimed the plane was oversold.
Ben later admitted this was an AC IT glitch.
But yes, there could be quite a few seats for sale while a flight is
technically oversold.
#19
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SFO
Programs: AC SE MM, SQ Silver, Bonvoy Tit LTG, Hyatt Glob, HH Diamond
Posts: 44,184
You need a friendly employee* to give you that information.
For the record, the flight is wide open in J, but as was speculated, there's no availability in Y.
If you want to buy a Y fare, they'll sell it to you, and some people will get an opup.
IKK requires positive space, which there is not.
I don't know what most people with the benefit say, but if that's what they say, they'd be wrong.
*Basically anyone with access to a terminal. Aeroplan call center agents, AC call center agents, anyone who works at the airport, etc. I'm sure if you call Aeroplan, they'll tell you something like "it's booked 186 of 184" if you ask nicely.
#21
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: YUL
Programs: ✈ AC 1MM / S100K - SPG Lifetime Platinum = BONVoY Lifetime Titanium
Posts: 1,496
And if it's J9, especially this close to the flight, then it makes plenty of sense for AC to oversell Y. It seems unlikely that there will be a sudden flurry of J bookings at the last minute (certainly possible, but unlikely) ... so they may as well sell as many tickets as there are seats on the plane. Even if there are zero no-shows, they would still be able to accommodate everyone by giving out op-ups to J.
I dont know what this means : J9 C9 D9 Z9 P9 R9 Y2 B1 M1 U1 H1 Q0 V0 W0 G0 S0 T0 L0 A0 K0
To me it means economy seats are available to purchase.
#22
Join Date: Dec 2013
Programs: AC SE100K, Bonvoy Ambassador Elite, Hilton Silver
Posts: 340
To me it means there is no positive space and no economy seats available. As CC and others have indicated above, they are selling seats they don't physically have in the economy cabin as they have empty seats in J (J means business class) that they can op-up pax into in the event they don't have the usual number of no shows.
#23
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SFO
Programs: AC SE MM, SQ Silver, Bonvoy Tit LTG, Hyatt Glob, HH Diamond
Posts: 44,184
To me it means there is no positive space and no economy seats available. As CC and others have indicated above, they are selling seats they don't physically have in the economy cabin as they have empty seats in J (J means business class) that they can op-up pax into in the event they don't have the usual number of no shows.
Airlines overbook. Everyone knows this.
Therefore, it should be obvious that they sell seats they don't have.
IKK requires positive space. The end. You cannot get this information on EF.
#24
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: YUL
Programs: ✈ AC 1MM / S100K - SPG Lifetime Platinum = BONVoY Lifetime Titanium
Posts: 1,496
ok thx.
What, in this , : J9 C9 D9 Z9 P9 R9 Y2 B1 M1 U1 H1 Q0 V0 W0 G0 S0 T0 L0 A0 K0
Indicates no positive space? doesn't Y2 mean 2 seats?
Just trying to understand the "positive space" part
What, in this , : J9 C9 D9 Z9 P9 R9 Y2 B1 M1 U1 H1 Q0 V0 W0 G0 S0 T0 L0 A0 K0
Indicates no positive space? doesn't Y2 mean 2 seats?
Just trying to understand the "positive space" part
#25
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SFO
Programs: AC SE MM, SQ Silver, Bonvoy Tit LTG, Hyatt Glob, HH Diamond
Posts: 44,184
You know they overbook. So imagine a case where they have sold every seat. It's still going to be Y1 or Y9 or something in between.
IKK is based on data not available through EF.
#26
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 2,494
No, EF doesn't give you loads.
You need a friendly employee* to give you that information.
For the record, the flight is wide open in J, but as was speculated, there's no availability in Y.
If you want to buy a Y fare, they'll sell it to you, and some people will get an opup.
IKK requires positive space, which there is not.
I don't know what most people with the benefit say, but if that's what they say, they'd be wrong.
*Basically anyone with access to a terminal. Aeroplan call center agents, AC call center agents, anyone who works at the airport, etc. I'm sure if you call Aeroplan, they'll tell you something like "it's booked 186 of 184" if you ask nicely.
You need a friendly employee* to give you that information.
For the record, the flight is wide open in J, but as was speculated, there's no availability in Y.
If you want to buy a Y fare, they'll sell it to you, and some people will get an opup.
IKK requires positive space, which there is not.
I don't know what most people with the benefit say, but if that's what they say, they'd be wrong.
*Basically anyone with access to a terminal. Aeroplan call center agents, AC call center agents, anyone who works at the airport, etc. I'm sure if you call Aeroplan, they'll tell you something like "it's booked 186 of 184" if you ask nicely.
#27
Join Date: May 2005
Location: YOW
Programs: AC-SE100K MM, BA-S HH-D, MB-G LT Sil, IHG-Plt, Nexus, Global Entry
Posts: 3,795
It means they are willing to sell two relatively expensive seats in economy. (and that someone will get oped-up because the flight is not oversold, only economy.)
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#28
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SFO
Programs: AC SE MM, SQ Silver, Bonvoy Tit LTG, Hyatt Glob, HH Diamond
Posts: 44,184
#29
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC SEMM / HH Diamond
Posts: 3,140
It really comes down to how much you want the upgrade. If you're flying a short hop, and you don't really mind if you end up sitting in Y for the flight, then booking a flight with high J but low Y is a good play, especially if you're an SE.
But keep in mind that AC are perfectly happy to fly with empty seats in J - and don't underestimate how good revenue management are, at predicting the number of no-shows (etc) - so if you really want the upgrade, use an eUp (or, you know, pay for J)
Concrete example: earlier this year I was flying YYZ-DEL. That particular flight was showing (from memory) Y2 and J6. As I was checking in, I asked the concierge if the flight was oversold, and thus were they likely to give out op-ups. The concierge told me that Y was indeed oversold BY 15!!!! but that there were a bunch of connections coming in, and so she was not confident that I'd get an op-up.
I ended up using my eUps, and so was one of the first to get a J seat (yay, very happy). At the gate, I asked the GA if Y was still oversold -- and she told me "no, they had two empty seats in Y" (and thus, everyone who showed up got a seat, no one was left behind).
I presume the cause was a bunch of missed connections, and it's possible that several other people were using eUps too ... but that also means they were not doing any op-ups ... if I hadn't used my eUps, I would still have been in Y.
Last edited by canopus27; Jul 23, 2017 at 8:43 am Reason: fixed tupo
#30
Join Date: May 2005
Location: YOW
Programs: AC-SE100K MM, BA-S HH-D, MB-G LT Sil, IHG-Plt, Nexus, Global Entry
Posts: 3,795
J3 C3 D1 Z0 P0 R3 Y4 B3 M3 U3 H3 Q2 V1 W0 G0 S0 T0 L0 A0 K0
Looks like a few folks have found a way to upgrade (LMU, e-UP, etc.). What did the OP decide.
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Looks like a few folks have found a way to upgrade (LMU, e-UP, etc.). What did the OP decide.
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