YYZ-CUN - SE on points July 24

Old Jul 22, 2017, 10:06 am
  #16  
 
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Originally Posted by D582
The benefit is that Y seats are available if there is positive space for sale in the cabin, not simply if revenue tickets are for sale. Looking at the availability numbers, it's not hard to assume that the Y cabin is at least physically full, if not oversold.
And if it's J9, especially this close to the flight, then it makes plenty of sense for AC to oversell Y. It seems unlikely that there will be a sudden flurry of J bookings at the last minute (certainly possible, but unlikely) ... so they may as well sell as many tickets as there are seats on the plane. Even if there are zero no-shows, they would still be able to accommodate everyone by giving out op-ups to J.
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Old Jul 22, 2017, 10:07 am
  #17  
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So, I would need an expert flyer account to verify this?
If not, an agent could simply tell me whatever they want?

Don't most people with this benefit simply say , "ok, it's bookable in Revenue on the ac site , it should be available to me as an SE then on points"
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Old Jul 22, 2017, 11:20 am
  #18  
 
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Originally Posted by RZR
If not, an agent could simply tell me whatever they want?

Don't most people with this benefit simply say , "ok, it's bookable in Revenue on the ac site , it should be available to me as an SE then on points"
Exactly. I went through this several years ago when EVERY fare class was
9, but I could not book IKK and AE/AC claimed the plane was oversold.

Ben later admitted this was an AC IT glitch.

But yes, there could be quite a few seats for sale while a flight is
technically oversold.
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Old Jul 22, 2017, 1:14 pm
  #19  
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Originally Posted by RZR
So, I would need an expert flyer account to verify this?
If not, an agent could simply tell me whatever they want?

Don't most people with this benefit simply say , "ok, it's bookable in Revenue on the ac site , it should be available to me as an SE then on points"
No, EF doesn't give you loads.

You need a friendly employee* to give you that information.

For the record, the flight is wide open in J, but as was speculated, there's no availability in Y.

If you want to buy a Y fare, they'll sell it to you, and some people will get an opup.

IKK requires positive space, which there is not.

I don't know what most people with the benefit say, but if that's what they say, they'd be wrong.

*Basically anyone with access to a terminal. Aeroplan call center agents, AC call center agents, anyone who works at the airport, etc. I'm sure if you call Aeroplan, they'll tell you something like "it's booked 186 of 184" if you ask nicely.
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Old Jul 22, 2017, 4:01 pm
  #20  
 
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As of 18:00, 22/07/2017:
J9 C9 D9 Z9 P9 R9 Y2 B1 M1 U1 H1 Q0 V0 W0 G0 S0 T0 L0 A0 K0
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Old Jul 22, 2017, 4:12 pm
  #21  
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Originally Posted by canopus27
And if it's J9, especially this close to the flight, then it makes plenty of sense for AC to oversell Y. It seems unlikely that there will be a sudden flurry of J bookings at the last minute (certainly possible, but unlikely) ... so they may as well sell as many tickets as there are seats on the plane. Even if there are zero no-shows, they would still be able to accommodate everyone by giving out op-ups to J.

I dont know what this means : J9 C9 D9 Z9 P9 R9 Y2 B1 M1 U1 H1 Q0 V0 W0 G0 S0 T0 L0 A0 K0

To me it means economy seats are available to purchase.
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Old Jul 22, 2017, 4:16 pm
  #22  
 
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Originally Posted by RZR
I dont know what this means : J9 C9 D9 Z9 P9 R9 Y2 B1 M1 U1 H1 Q0 V0 W0 G0 S0 T0 L0 A0 K0

To me it means economy seats are available to purchase.
To me it means there is no positive space and no economy seats available. As CC and others have indicated above, they are selling seats they don't physically have in the economy cabin as they have empty seats in J (J means business class) that they can op-up pax into in the event they don't have the usual number of no shows.
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Old Jul 22, 2017, 4:37 pm
  #23  
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Originally Posted by djkyyc
To me it means there is no positive space and no economy seats available. As CC and others have indicated above, they are selling seats they don't physically have in the economy cabin as they have empty seats in J (J means business class) that they can op-up pax into in the event they don't have the usual number of no shows.
Even if they do have no shows, they're happy to opup someone if they can sell a last minute fare.

Airlines overbook. Everyone knows this.
Therefore, it should be obvious that they sell seats they don't have.

IKK requires positive space. The end. You cannot get this information on EF.
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Old Jul 22, 2017, 4:53 pm
  #24  
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ok thx.

What, in this , : J9 C9 D9 Z9 P9 R9 Y2 B1 M1 U1 H1 Q0 V0 W0 G0 S0 T0 L0 A0 K0

Indicates no positive space? doesn't Y2 mean 2 seats?

Just trying to understand the "positive space" part
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Old Jul 22, 2017, 6:09 pm
  #25  
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Originally Posted by RZR
ok thx.

What, in this , : J9 C9 D9 Z9 P9 R9 Y2 B1 M1 U1 H1 Q0 V0 W0 G0 S0 T0 L0 A0 K0

Indicates no positive space? doesn't Y2 mean 2 seats?

Just trying to understand the "positive space" part
Y2 means they're willing to SELL two more seats in economy. EF only shows what they're willing to sell, not actual loads.

You know they overbook. So imagine a case where they have sold every seat. It's still going to be Y1 or Y9 or something in between.

IKK is based on data not available through EF.
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Old Jul 22, 2017, 6:35 pm
  #26  
 
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Originally Posted by canadiancow
No, EF doesn't give you loads.

You need a friendly employee* to give you that information.

For the record, the flight is wide open in J, but as was speculated, there's no availability in Y.

If you want to buy a Y fare, they'll sell it to you, and some people will get an opup.

IKK requires positive space, which there is not.

I don't know what most people with the benefit say, but if that's what they say, they'd be wrong.

*Basically anyone with access to a terminal. Aeroplan call center agents, AC call center agents, anyone who works at the airport, etc. I'm sure if you call Aeroplan, they'll tell you something like "it's booked 186 of 184" if you ask nicely.
so if you know there is a lot of open J seats and Y is oversold, then as a SE it's a good idea to buy, not eUp and hope for an Op Up?
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Old Jul 22, 2017, 6:39 pm
  #27  
 
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It means they are willing to sell two relatively expensive seats in economy. (and that someone will get oped-up because the flight is not oversold, only economy.)
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Old Jul 22, 2017, 7:57 pm
  #28  
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Originally Posted by quantumofforce
so if you know there is a lot of open J seats and Y is oversold, then as a SE it's a good idea to buy, not eUp and hope for an Op Up?
Assuming no one else is entitled to J, sure.
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Old Jul 23, 2017, 8:22 am
  #29  
 
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Originally Posted by quantumofforce
so if you know there is a lot of open J seats and Y is oversold, then as a SE it's a good idea to buy, not eUp and hope for an Op Up?
Yes but.

It really comes down to how much you want the upgrade. If you're flying a short hop, and you don't really mind if you end up sitting in Y for the flight, then booking a flight with high J but low Y is a good play, especially if you're an SE.

But keep in mind that AC are perfectly happy to fly with empty seats in J - and don't underestimate how good revenue management are, at predicting the number of no-shows (etc) - so if you really want the upgrade, use an eUp (or, you know, pay for J)

Concrete example: earlier this year I was flying YYZ-DEL. That particular flight was showing (from memory) Y2 and J6. As I was checking in, I asked the concierge if the flight was oversold, and thus were they likely to give out op-ups. The concierge told me that Y was indeed oversold BY 15!!!! but that there were a bunch of connections coming in, and so she was not confident that I'd get an op-up.

I ended up using my eUps, and so was one of the first to get a J seat (yay, very happy). At the gate, I asked the GA if Y was still oversold -- and she told me "no, they had two empty seats in Y" (and thus, everyone who showed up got a seat, no one was left behind).

I presume the cause was a bunch of missed connections, and it's possible that several other people were using eUps too ... but that also means they were not doing any op-ups ... if I hadn't used my eUps, I would still have been in Y.

Last edited by canopus27; Jul 23, 2017 at 8:43 am Reason: fixed tupo
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Old Jul 23, 2017, 7:27 pm
  #30  
 
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J3 C3 D1 Z0 P0 R3 Y4 B3 M3 U3 H3 Q2 V1 W0 G0 S0 T0 L0 A0 K0

Looks like a few folks have found a way to upgrade (LMU, e-UP, etc.). What did the OP decide.
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