Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Airlines and Mileage Programs > Air Canada | Aeroplan
Reload this Page >

Why does Air Canada not provide free same-day changes for elites?

Why does Air Canada not provide free same-day changes for elites?

Old Jun 16, 2017, 10:57 pm
  #16  
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Vancouver
Programs: Aeroplan, Mileage Plus, WestJet Gold, AMEX Plat
Posts: 2,026
Originally Posted by Symmetre
Straight answer is, Air Canada doesn't think to do things like this because they couldn't care less about customer experience. The only thing that matters to Calin and the management team is making their next bonus.
When turned down by an AC agent, I usually end the conversation by saying. "I will just go sit in the lounge enjoying AC complimentary wine and spirits for an extra hour or two. How does the later flight look, hate it when we don't get out in time by having to go through that entire thing of offering compensation for inconvenience tp passengers."

I find the smaller stations are more focused on getting passengers to the hubs as quickly as possible and creating room on later flights. YYJ is a good example.
Fiordland is offline  
Old Jun 16, 2017, 11:02 pm
  #17  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: YVR
Programs: AC SE*2MM. SPG Plat life
Posts: 4,644
Originally Posted by Fiordland
When turned down by an AC agent, I usually end the conversation by saying. "I will just go sit in the lounge enjoying AC complimentary wine and spirits for an extra hour or two. .
That's a good way of getting yourself kicked off a flight in a American airport.
Wpgjetse is offline  
Old Jun 16, 2017, 11:08 pm
  #18  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: YYC
Programs: AC SE100*1MM; Spire Ambassador
Posts: 1,339
This proposal is great and I fully support it...
lespoir is offline  
Old Jun 17, 2017, 12:07 am
  #19  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SFO
Programs: AC SE MM, SQ Silver, Bonvoy Tit LTG, Hyatt Glob, HH Diamond
Posts: 44,186
Originally Posted by Wpgjetse
That's a good way of getting yourself kicked off a flight in a American airport.
Yes, the numerous times I've been kicked off flights in SFO would support this.
canadiancow is online now  
Old Jun 17, 2017, 5:37 am
  #20  
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: YEG
Programs: AC Lifetime SE100K, 3MM, SPG Lifetime Plat, Hertz PC, National Executive Elite
Posts: 2,901
Originally Posted by Fiordland
When turned down by an AC agent, I usually end the conversation by saying. "I will just go sit in the lounge enjoying AC complimentary wine and spirits for an extra hour or two.
And does the messenger before you appear to react to this (useless) bit of information?
YEG_SE4Life is offline  
Old Jun 17, 2017, 5:38 am
  #21  
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: YEG
Programs: AC Lifetime SE100K, 3MM, SPG Lifetime Plat, Hertz PC, National Executive Elite
Posts: 2,901
Originally Posted by canadiancow
Yes, the numerous times I've been kicked off flights in SFO would support this.
Did you forget the emoji, or are you awaiting the 747 result?
YEG_SE4Life is offline  
Old Jun 17, 2017, 8:24 am
  #22  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC*SE 2MM
Posts: 16,578
I do understand why AC doesn't offer this - lack of perceived competitive threat and revenue from SDC >>> cost of IDB (excluding reputational harm) but I think a case could be made to offer free SDC (at least to some or all status pax) on Flex and higher fares - that might help justify in more peoples' mind the often ludicrous gap between Tango and flex.
The Lev is offline  
Old Jun 17, 2017, 9:48 am
  #23  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: yyz/ord
Programs: AC E50 UA1k 2MM AA EXP Royal Ambassador SPG Platinum
Posts: 1,516
Originally Posted by CanRulez
I agree. AC should provide it for free for elites.
Air Canada does not care, reality is trapped customers are AC best customers those that live in remote locations, those that can connect via USA easily, and customers who are scared to try a different airline program.

If more Canadians were more aggressive in complaints about AC horrible service, something might change, but we are nice and just put up with it.

IROPS is AC biggest downfall also being one of the worst on time airline in NA
flybit is offline  
Old Jun 17, 2017, 10:04 am
  #24  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Programs: AC SE100K-1MM, NH, DL, AA, BA, Global Entry/Nexus, APEC..
Posts: 18,877
Air Canada does not provide a number of small perks to its SEs, MMs etc that are provided by the majors to the south and elsewhere - simply because they don't have to.

AC does not see itself as having competition in the Canadian marketplace at least. Further, AC is not going to provide anything to anyone where they can possibly make money instead.

Along with fees for SDCs, this forum has also asked why UA and AA give their 1Ks and EXPs a BoB choice and a drink, when these pax are seated in Coach. On the CX forum, there is discussion of small perks like this for MPC Diamonds when seated in Y etc.

How expensive is it really, to do something small like that? I'll assume that AC doesn't do it for a few reasons:
1. It might costs a few pennies
2. It might require the FA to actually go into the Y cabin and provide this
3. It might offend the "we are all equal" view that many have

Some airlines view these things as small ways to let their most valuable customers know they are, well, valuable. It's also a cultural thing.

However, we all know the story of an AC cabin crew member who once brought a drink to a SE or MM in Y, and was then fired.

To me, that says more about corporate culture than any discussion of free SDC for SEs etc.


As for the part about heading off to the MLL to drink or eat for 2 hours instead, well, I read that comment on this forum a long time ago and when I finally encountered that situation for myself, I used the same line with amusing responses.


I understand that AC wants to monetize everything they can. It's good for the airline, good for the shareholders, etc.

But I've often wondered why AC would not want to take customer with no checked bags, who was available to fly on the 3pm and put them on the 2pm. We all know the potential benefit to AC is it opens up seats on the 3pm and so on. Some of those seats may be needed to accommodate late-arriving connecting pax.

Anyway, who really knows. Just my humble opinion.
24left is offline  
Old Jun 17, 2017, 11:14 am
  #25  
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 525
UA agents at the airport sometimes gives SDC for free to non elite members. I've had this happen a few years back before I was flying a lot and was just handed a new BP for an earlier flight.

AC agents don't seem to have any flexibility when it comes to policy. I got to YYZ 4 hours early for a flight to YVR and asked to be put on the 4PM flight instead of the 7PM flight. They wanted $94 for that change. I walked by the gate and the plane was pretty empty for the 4PM. When it came to boarding time for my flight, the flight was packed with standbys.

I wasn't about to pay for a move but giving away my seat probably would have gotten another standby out on that flight.
LoveHateRelationship is offline  
Old Jun 17, 2017, 1:11 pm
  #26  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SFO
Programs: AC SE MM, SQ Silver, Bonvoy Tit LTG, Hyatt Glob, HH Diamond
Posts: 44,186
Originally Posted by YEG_SE4Life
Did you forget the emoji, or are you awaiting the 747 result?
You're right, it could have used a ""

Anyway, no one has replied to my post on the differences between SDC on various airlines.

What exactly do you want?

Do you want free UA/AA-style SDC? Do you want the the fee to be dropped for AC's style of SDC? That would seem to make AC's the most generous policy in North America.

Just glancing at DL's policy also brings up some interesting points. You can't change a one-stop to a non-stop. You can't change to a different co-terminal, etc.

AA also has restrictions on changes to the itinerary.

AC may be the only one who charges top tier, but it is also a much more flexible policy than any of the US airlines, and I regularly do things on AC that, while they cost money, would be impossible as a 1K/EXP/DM on UA/AA/DL.

Who gets it free?
AA: Executive Platinum (SE equivalent)
DL: Gold and up (E50K+)
UA: Gold and up (E50K+)

So what do you want?

Why has no one actually written a well-thought proposal as to how this would work? Why not put some thought into this? A page or two with a proposal, and a comparison to the US legacies (specifically addressing the issues I've outlined about AC's policy allowing for way more flexibility in the permitted changes) would be much easier for everyone to comment on than a post that just says "I want free SDC". And if it were written well enough, you could probably even send it to someone at AC for review.
canadiancow is online now  
Old Jun 17, 2017, 3:07 pm
  #27  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Programs: AC MM E50 , Former SPG, now Marriott LT Plat
Posts: 6,246
Originally Posted by canadiancow
That being said, I've certainly made use of the free SDC for Gold on UA, and it is a nice feature. But the last time I used it, I was looking for SFO-SAN. The flight my friend was on was $150. The cheapest flight that day was $100. I booked the $100 and SDC'd to the $150, free of charge. UA lost $50.

Another AC FTer told me he regularly books the latest reasonable Rapidair flight, knowing he will clear standby onto whatever flight he wants, every single time. So if the 4pm is $500 and the 8pm is $200, he's paying $200 for the 4pm.
This is why.
IluvSQ is offline  
Old Jun 17, 2017, 5:49 pm
  #28  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Halifax
Programs: AC SE100K, Marriott Lifetime Platinum Elite. NEXUS
Posts: 4,527
Originally Posted by yannerd
UA agents at the airport sometimes gives SDC for free to non elite members.
I'm kinda curious about the GA mandate. Since load factor is a (the?) most significant factor for airline profitability, perhaps UA GA's are measured or comp'd on that. And all bodies airside going to the next station have paid *something*. A PAX who can board this flight, now, might get that GA a set of steak knives next time they hand out bonuses.

This all said, as a SE I've had no problem getting rebooked, STBY, on other flights if there is even the slightest chance of a missed connection. That is a world away from "just because", I grant.
RangerNS is offline  
Old Jun 17, 2017, 10:08 pm
  #29  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Programs: Air Canada
Posts: 117
Originally Posted by gcashin
AC is definitely the outlier here among NA airlines in not offering same day changes to their top tier members. However, I'd expect they collect millions in same day change fees, so they'd be reluctant to give it up.

The area where it could have a payoff would be in reducing oversold flights. I'm sure there are plenty of instances each day where a customer would prefer to move from an oversold flight to a flight with space, but doesn't because of the fee. One of the side benefits to free SDC's is that some customers on oversold flights would voluntarily move to flights with room, which is a benefit to the airline in reducing IDB/VDB compensation. The system wouldn't (or shouldn't) allow them to do a SDC to full/oversold flights, so any time a customer moves away from an oversold flight, it's one less potential IDB.

In addition to it being a good benefit for AC's frequent fliers, it could have some business benefits in reducing oversold flights.
dobiefan is offline  
Old Jun 18, 2017, 10:41 am
  #30  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: YOW
Programs: AC SEMM; AA,DL, Hyatt and Starwood. Ex-status:SQ PPS,CSA,Hilton,AA,UA
Posts: 743
While I agree with what has been said, I think an important part of it is price differentiation.

Air Canada has been amazingly successful keeping a wide degree of price differentiation. Right now, a few weeks out, AC will sell an economy ticket YVR-YYZ for $310 in Tango, about $500 in Flex, and $1688 in Latitude (Latitude:Tango ratio about 5.5X). Business lowest starts at $1250 or so, and flexible business about $2650. In comparison, UA prices cheap economy EWR-LAX at C$377 and flexible economy at C$1201, a ratio of about 3.2X, significantly less. [I pulled these off of the ac.com and united.com websites right now]

Keeping people willing to pay 5X+ for the same seat requires first of all market power, which AC has in Canada, of course. But it also requires maintaining at least apparent product differentiation of some sort. You've got to make Flex look sufficiently inflexible for people/businesses to be willing to pay for Latitude.

Of course, pure yield management/fare bucket availability gets you part of the way there. Change/cancellation fees "help" too. But any additional differentiator, like a $75 SDC helps. And the value at stake for AC is not just $75, but the Latitude-Flex differential.

Flyertalkers are of course quite savvy and see the smoke and mirrors: it takes a lot of change fees of any kind to make a high fare "worth it" and we generally don't buy Latitude with our own money. But as an independent consultant, I continue to be amazed at how many of my clients have no trouble at all paying whatever ticket invoice I present to them, any fare type, but balk at the clause I put in my contract terms that says "nonrefundable and/or restricted tickets can be purchased if Client agrees to reimburse change, refund, reissurance, or other service fees as needed, and/or nonrefundable portions not recoverable if travel plans change".

So when I fork over $75 of my own money to get home 3 hours early from a rained-out weekend getaway, I realize that's collateral damage from AC's successful campaign to get my clients to pay $$$ instead of $$ for my plane tickets, and therefore make it a lot easier for me to get to 20,000 AQD than it would otherwise be...
montrealer is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.