Couple 'flabbergasted' after AC suspends tickets charging $6K to return from Portugal
May 18, 2017, 10:50 am
#91
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: YYC
Programs: AC Basic, UA MP Gold, Marriott Gold Elite, SPG Gold, Amex Platinum
Posts: 3,008
87 responses and over 5,000 views from frequent flyers who know the AC schedule backwards and forwards. Yet no one picked up on the fact that AC only provides summer seasonal service to Lisbon, Portugal. The family traveled in February and March with the incident occurring March 21.
So i did a dummy booking for winter season 2017/18 and discovered the only way to travel YYT-LIS-YYT is to use TAP for the trip into LIS, either with a connection in LHR or FRA.
So perhaps the posters quoted below could describe how AC was solely responsible for the mishap that occurred at the TAP checkin counter using TAP fraud protocols, TAP staff, and TAP operating procedures? Also perhaps the posters could comment as to how AC is suposed to speed up TAP for issue resolution?
What perplexes about these stories is why and how the AC anti-fraud system works. .......
The other peculiar part is cancelling just the return portion. Did they conclude there something else going on such as a hidden booking, etc.?
We'll probably never know but articles like this are a good reminder to always have enough room on your credit cards to get home.
The other peculiar part is cancelling just the return portion. Did they conclude there something else going on such as a hidden booking, etc.?
We'll probably never know but articles like this are a good reminder to always have enough room on your credit cards to get home.
I just cannot believe this. Even if they were flagged as fraudulent tickets, why was this not clarified by AC when the couple left Canada. They could have asked to see the credit card with which they had purchased the tickets and the couple would have not have to go through this drama.
At what point does this go from being a good faith error by AC, to a corrupt business practice with the deliberate intent to defraud a passenger by refusing to issue a refund after being apprised of the facts and given every opportunity to respond?
He bought a ticket which AC refused to honour, for a contrived reason (credit card fraud which did not, in fact, take place).
He bought a ticket which AC refused to honour, for a contrived reason (credit card fraud which did not, in fact, take place).
They paid for their tickets well in advance, AC had no legal right to deny them boarding at the last second on their way back, in fact the person who made the final decision needs to be charged with fraud for willfully not providing a service that they have received payment for. I would love to see if there is any provision in the COC that allows an airline to deny boarding when passengers have complied with all of the requirements of the contract. AC accepted the money, the credit card company authorized the charge , the passenger paid the credit card company.
Also, since the airline flew them to Portugal, they were required to fly them back if they had a ticket.
Also, since the airline flew them to Portugal, they were required to fly them back if they had a ticket.
May 18, 2017, 10:57 am
#92
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: May 2002
Location: YEG
Programs: HH Silver
Posts: 56,446
So perhaps the posters quoted below could describe how AC was solely responsible for the mishap that occurred at the TAP checkin counter using TAP fraud protocols, TAP staff, and TAP operating procedures? Also perhaps the posters could comment as to how AC is suposed to speed up TAP for issue resolution?
https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...kets-home.html
“When we arrived they said ‘Sorry, Air Canada has suspended your ticket,’” he said in an interview from his home in Topsail, a community in Conception Bay South. “They told us to go to the customer service desk, but then we were told we needed to call Air Canada directly.”
May 18, 2017, 10:58 am
#93
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Providence RI
Programs: American Exec Plat, Hyatt Refugeeist, Marriot Gold, Air Canada Cattle Class, Korean Air Morning Plat
Posts: 988
Do we know that they used a TAP check in counter? I haven't read that. If they went via FRA or LHR then they could have used an LH or AC check in counter for the first leg.
..................and for you ACbots who apologize for everything AC does, if they had simply told this poor couple that they are awaiting TAP's assistance and they were researching it, I think it would be fine.
Instead they ignored the problem..............again
..................and for you ACbots who apologize for everything AC does, if they had simply told this poor couple that they are awaiting TAP's assistance and they were researching it, I think it would be fine.
Instead they ignored the problem..............again
May 18, 2017, 11:04 am
#94
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2014
Programs: AC SE100K-1MM, NH, DL, AA, BA, Global Entry/Nexus, APEC..
Posts: 18,877
Okay I guess I will play the apologist role.
87 responses and over 5,000 views from frequent flyers who know the AC schedule backwards and forwards. Yet no one picked up on the fact that AC only provides summer seasonal service to Lisbon, Portugal. The family traveled in February and March with the incident occurring March 21.
So i did a dummy booking for winter season 2017/18 and discovered the only way to travel YYT-LIS-YYT is to use TAP for the trip into LIS, either with a connection in LHR or FRA.
So perhaps the posters quoted below could describe how AC was solely responsible for the mishap that occurred at the TAP checkin counter using TAP fraud protocols, TAP staff, and TAP operating procedures? Also perhaps the posters could comment as to how AC is suposed to speed up TAP for issue resolution?
87 responses and over 5,000 views from frequent flyers who know the AC schedule backwards and forwards. Yet no one picked up on the fact that AC only provides summer seasonal service to Lisbon, Portugal. The family traveled in February and March with the incident occurring March 21.
So i did a dummy booking for winter season 2017/18 and discovered the only way to travel YYT-LIS-YYT is to use TAP for the trip into LIS, either with a connection in LHR or FRA.
So perhaps the posters quoted below could describe how AC was solely responsible for the mishap that occurred at the TAP checkin counter using TAP fraud protocols, TAP staff, and TAP operating procedures? Also perhaps the posters could comment as to how AC is suposed to speed up TAP for issue resolution?
Great detective work and I assume none of us noticed because despite knowing routes and AC flight numbers, clearly flying TP into LIS was not the issue many here focused on .
QUOTES from the article in the OP:
In December, Earle and his wife Claudia booked a five-week round trip from St. John's to Portugal through Air Canada's website for about $2,400. They paid by credit card.
..."We go to check in, and we were told, 'Air Canada has cancelled your ticket. You have to go to customer care,'" he said.
Earle said they spent the next three hours getting the runaround from airport agents. Multiple calls on a pay phone to Air Canada and Star Alliance's customer care lines didn't resolve matters."
So, they bought their ticket from AC and that was all that mattered. To them and likely lots of others, AC had the greater responsibility. And if TP did something to cause this mess, then AC can take it up with them. IMHO.
May 18, 2017, 11:14 am
#95
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: May 2002
Location: YEG
Programs: HH Silver
Posts: 56,446
QUOTES from the article in the OP:
In December, Earle and his wife Claudia booked a five-week round trip from St. John's to Portugal through Air Canada's website for about $2,400. They paid by credit card.
..."We go to check in, and we were told, 'Air Canada has cancelled your ticket. You have to go to customer care,'" he said.
Earle said they spent the next three hours getting the runaround from airport agents. Multiple calls on a pay phone to Air Canada and Star Alliance's customer care lines didn't resolve matters."
In December, Earle and his wife Claudia booked a five-week round trip from St. John's to Portugal through Air Canada's website for about $2,400. They paid by credit card.
..."We go to check in, and we were told, 'Air Canada has cancelled your ticket. You have to go to customer care,'" he said.
Earle said they spent the next three hours getting the runaround from airport agents. Multiple calls on a pay phone to Air Canada and Star Alliance's customer care lines didn't resolve matters."
May 18, 2017, 11:16 am
#96
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: YVR
Programs: UA Premier Platinum
Posts: 3,759
Thanks to WR Cage for adding a valuable piece of information to the discussion. I'll have a go at explaining why it's AC's fault. Everything below is under the assumption that all travel was on 014 tickets.
AC is the ticketing carrier. If AC has cancelled/suspended the ticket, the passengers cannot fly. And as those of you who have encountered Aeroplan "coupon required" issues at the airport with non AC carriers know, there is nothing the operating carrier can do if you don't have a valid ticket. They didn't sell your ticket or take your money. All they can do is sell you a new one which is likely exactly what happened here with TAP.
So I disagree that TAP staff or fraud prevention instigated this at all, or that TAP was responsible for the refund. AC sold the ticket and was solely responsible for collecting payment from the passenger. Non plating airlines on an itinerary do not get involved in CC fraud verification and may not even be able to see what the original form of payment was.
None of the information in the article including the responses of ACs own reps indicates that anyone other than AC cancelled the ticket. Given that, it isn't material what operating carrier operated the first leg.
AC is the ticketing carrier. If AC has cancelled/suspended the ticket, the passengers cannot fly. And as those of you who have encountered Aeroplan "coupon required" issues at the airport with non AC carriers know, there is nothing the operating carrier can do if you don't have a valid ticket. They didn't sell your ticket or take your money. All they can do is sell you a new one which is likely exactly what happened here with TAP.
So I disagree that TAP staff or fraud prevention instigated this at all, or that TAP was responsible for the refund. AC sold the ticket and was solely responsible for collecting payment from the passenger. Non plating airlines on an itinerary do not get involved in CC fraud verification and may not even be able to see what the original form of payment was.
None of the information in the article including the responses of ACs own reps indicates that anyone other than AC cancelled the ticket. Given that, it isn't material what operating carrier operated the first leg.
May 18, 2017, 11:20 am
#97
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,093
In other words, TAP couldn't have been the one cancelling their ticket, TAP didn't even have the CC info to begin with as the payment and ticketing was processed by AC.
Furthermore, if it was bought on AC.com, that means their ticket must be 014 ticket stock. TAP will not touch a 014 ticket stock and TAP is paid by AC, not the pax themselves.
I think it's a valiant effort to play apologist in this case, ultimately, if WR Cage had looked into this just a little deeper, it's plainly obvious that fault couldn't have been with TAP.
But maybe this explains why AC wants you to file your claim in Alberta because all our resident apologists seem to come from there exclusively!
Furthermore, if it was bought on AC.com, that means their ticket must be 014 ticket stock. TAP will not touch a 014 ticket stock and TAP is paid by AC, not the pax themselves.
I think it's a valiant effort to play apologist in this case, ultimately, if WR Cage had looked into this just a little deeper, it's plainly obvious that fault couldn't have been with TAP.
But maybe this explains why AC wants you to file your claim in Alberta because all our resident apologists seem to come from there exclusively!
May 18, 2017, 11:24 am
#98
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: May 2002
Location: YEG
Programs: HH Silver
Posts: 56,446
May 18, 2017, 11:37 am
#99
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: YVR
Programs: UA Premier Platinum
Posts: 3,759
To my mind, this is the timeline of events:
1. AC sold the ticket, either directly or through its authorized agent
2. At some point after the completion of outbound travel, AC cancels or otherwise invalidates the ticket, citing CC fraud
3. On the day of departure for inbound travel, passenger finds their ticket invalid for travel and contacts AC
4. AC is unable to resolve the situation, such as by offering to accept a 2nd form of payment at the original fare while the CC fraud issue is investigated (a common form of recourse used by other airlines in this scenario)
5. Passenger buys new ticket, unclear whether from TAP or AC
6. Passenger contacts AC for refund of new ticket citing erroneous claim of CC fraud, AC refuses
At what point is the operating carrier of the first inbound leg relevant?
AC sold the ticket.
AC cancelled the ticket.
Why would the passenger deal with TAP, who never collected a cent from them, when AC admitted it cancelled the ticket?
1. AC sold the ticket, either directly or through its authorized agent
2. At some point after the completion of outbound travel, AC cancels or otherwise invalidates the ticket, citing CC fraud
3. On the day of departure for inbound travel, passenger finds their ticket invalid for travel and contacts AC
4. AC is unable to resolve the situation, such as by offering to accept a 2nd form of payment at the original fare while the CC fraud issue is investigated (a common form of recourse used by other airlines in this scenario)
5. Passenger buys new ticket, unclear whether from TAP or AC
6. Passenger contacts AC for refund of new ticket citing erroneous claim of CC fraud, AC refuses
At what point is the operating carrier of the first inbound leg relevant?
AC sold the ticket.
AC cancelled the ticket.
Why would the passenger deal with TAP, who never collected a cent from them, when AC admitted it cancelled the ticket?
May 18, 2017, 1:46 pm
#100
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: YOW
Posts: 1,024
@WR Cage
As one of the posters quoted above. I based my judgement on AC in part on this statement from the article.
In December, Earle and his wife Claudia booked a five-week round trip from St. John's to Portugal through Air Canada's website for about $2,400. They paid by credit card.
booked through AC's website, not a travel agent, not a 3rd party, not a consolidator etc.
TAP could not have had anything to do with the "fraud detection" because they would not have had the passengers cc info. AC did. The customer made multiple phone calls to AC from the Lisbon airport trying to resolve the CC issue.
When contacted about reimbursement for the new tickets they had to buy, AC had this response "apologized for any inconvenience our procedures may have caused you."
Inconvience? Really, the customers had to spend 6,000 to re buy plane tickets that he had already purchased and AC had been paid for. And when they asked for reimbursement for costs caused by AC's screw up, they ignore the situation.
If they followed up the above statement with please send us your receipts and we will send you a check. This would not be a story, this is where AC falls down time and time again. Most of us understand that sometimes s happens, it is the customer service recovery that AC fails at.
As one of the posters quoted above. I based my judgement on AC in part on this statement from the article.
In December, Earle and his wife Claudia booked a five-week round trip from St. John's to Portugal through Air Canada's website for about $2,400. They paid by credit card.
booked through AC's website, not a travel agent, not a 3rd party, not a consolidator etc.
TAP could not have had anything to do with the "fraud detection" because they would not have had the passengers cc info. AC did. The customer made multiple phone calls to AC from the Lisbon airport trying to resolve the CC issue.
When contacted about reimbursement for the new tickets they had to buy, AC had this response "apologized for any inconvenience our procedures may have caused you."
Inconvience? Really, the customers had to spend 6,000 to re buy plane tickets that he had already purchased and AC had been paid for. And when they asked for reimbursement for costs caused by AC's screw up, they ignore the situation.
If they followed up the above statement with please send us your receipts and we will send you a check. This would not be a story, this is where AC falls down time and time again. Most of us understand that sometimes s happens, it is the customer service recovery that AC fails at.
May 18, 2017, 1:50 pm
#101
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,093
When contacted about reimbursement for the new tickets they had to buy, AC had this response "apologized for any inconvenience our procedures may have caused you."
Inconvience? Really, the customers had to spend 6,000 to re buy plane tickets that he had already purchased and AC had been paid for. And when they asked for reimbursement for costs caused by AC's screw up, they ignore the situation.
Inconvience? Really, the customers had to spend 6,000 to re buy plane tickets that he had already purchased and AC had been paid for. And when they asked for reimbursement for costs caused by AC's screw up, they ignore the situation.
I wonder if their PR is handled by the same firm?
May 18, 2017, 2:04 pm
#102
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 17,451
AC dumped them in Portugal. Unreliable travel partner.
But really AC lucked out. Because he could afford to buy tickets back to Canada.
Think how bad it would have been
Dumped in a foreign country with a paid ticket that AC won't honour, but without the means to stay or leave? That could go to a diplomatic incident.
How that story would have played for AC is far far worse than this one. How about a family with a sick child? This was like the third story of baloney fraud control stranding AC customers in the last year.
They were lucky. But if they don't fix their idiot fraud control systems they are playing with fire and will eventually burn their whole damn house down.
But really AC lucked out. Because he could afford to buy tickets back to Canada.
Think how bad it would have been
" ...if this was some young person who scraped together every last cent, so to speak, for a holiday in Portugal, or a senior citizen who wasn't used to navigating the claims court. I mean, it would be terrible for them."
How that story would have played for AC is far far worse than this one. How about a family with a sick child? This was like the third story of baloney fraud control stranding AC customers in the last year.
They were lucky. But if they don't fix their idiot fraud control systems they are playing with fire and will eventually burn their whole damn house down.
May 18, 2017, 2:54 pm
#103
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Programs: Aeroplan, IHG, Enterprise, Avios, Nexus
Posts: 8,355
AC dumped them in Portugal. Unreliable travel partner.
But really AC lucked out. Because he could afford to buy tickets back to Canada.
Think how bad it would have been
Dumped in a foreign country with a paid ticket that AC won't honour, but without the means to stay or leave? That could go to a diplomatic incident.
How that story would have played for AC is far far worse than this one. How about a family with a sick child? This was like the third story of baloney fraud control stranding AC customers in the last year.
They were lucky. But if they don't fix their idiot fraud control systems they are playing with fire and will eventually burn their whole damn house down.
But really AC lucked out. Because he could afford to buy tickets back to Canada.
Think how bad it would have been
Dumped in a foreign country with a paid ticket that AC won't honour, but without the means to stay or leave? That could go to a diplomatic incident.
How that story would have played for AC is far far worse than this one. How about a family with a sick child? This was like the third story of baloney fraud control stranding AC customers in the last year.
They were lucky. But if they don't fix their idiot fraud control systems they are playing with fire and will eventually burn their whole damn house down.
May 18, 2017, 4:09 pm
#104
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 6,222
In other words, TAP couldn't have been the one cancelling their ticket, TAP didn't even have the CC info to begin with as the payment and ticketing was processed by AC.
Furthermore, if it was bought on AC.com, that means their ticket must be 014 ticket stock. TAP will not touch a 014 ticket stock and TAP is paid by AC, not the pax themselves.
I think it's a valiant effort to play apologist in this case, ultimately, if WR Cage had looked into this just a little deeper, it's plainly obvious that fault couldn't have been with TAP.
But maybe this explains why AC wants you to file your claim in Alberta because all our resident apologists seem to come from there exclusively!
Furthermore, if it was bought on AC.com, that means their ticket must be 014 ticket stock. TAP will not touch a 014 ticket stock and TAP is paid by AC, not the pax themselves.
I think it's a valiant effort to play apologist in this case, ultimately, if WR Cage had looked into this just a little deeper, it's plainly obvious that fault couldn't have been with TAP.
But maybe this explains why AC wants you to file your claim in Alberta because all our resident apologists seem to come from there exclusively!
How does Russia play into all of this?