CBC: 'Appalling': Woman bumped from Air Canada flight misses $10,000 Galapagos cruise
Apr 21, 2017, 12:38 pm
#91
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC SEMM / HH Diamond
Posts: 3,152
I'm actually shocked at all the AC love-in's on here that say that this isn't remotely a valid complaint. Really?
Delta - as an example - alerts you during online check-in of an oversell, and proactively solicits compensation "bids". They call the volunteers at the gate, and if they didn't get enough through OLCI or Kiosk, the offers go up until they get enough takers.
I'm sorry, but AC could absolutely have handled this better and the people that think AC did nothing wrong here - I'm sorry that you've become so jaded that you accept pretty much no level of proactive customer service.
What we need in Canada apparently is regulation seeing as AC can't behave itself (WS doesn't routinely overbook, so in Canada - it's pretty much just AC).
If AC was mandated to proactively solicit volunteers, to pay higher amounts of VDB, and be required to pay a (much) higher level of IDB compensation, maybe things will change to the positive.
Delta - as an example - alerts you during online check-in of an oversell, and proactively solicits compensation "bids". They call the volunteers at the gate, and if they didn't get enough through OLCI or Kiosk, the offers go up until they get enough takers.
I'm sorry, but AC could absolutely have handled this better and the people that think AC did nothing wrong here - I'm sorry that you've become so jaded that you accept pretty much no level of proactive customer service.
What we need in Canada apparently is regulation seeing as AC can't behave itself (WS doesn't routinely overbook, so in Canada - it's pretty much just AC).
If AC was mandated to proactively solicit volunteers, to pay higher amounts of VDB, and be required to pay a (much) higher level of IDB compensation, maybe things will change to the positive.
Apr 21, 2017, 12:41 pm
#92
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Sudbury-North Shore-Manitoulin
Programs: AP SPG HH
Posts: 631
IMO the passenger's mistake was booking with Air Canada. That may have been the fault of the TA/Tour company. She may have been better off booking with Delta, AA or even United since from my experience and from some of the posts here, there would have been more genuine help at the airport.
Apr 21, 2017, 12:48 pm
#93
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Canada
Programs: AS, DL, UA, Hyatt, SPG
Posts: 2,574
And an addendum...
Travel Insurance would have covered a missed flight connection due to weather delays, mechanical situations etc and Trip Interruption benefits would have given her access to purchase new flights, cover hotels, etc. in order to catch up with her itinerary and get down to Ecuador.
Travel Insurance does not typically cover missed connection because of an airlines greed / poor business practices / or their poor handling of their decision to sell more tickets than there are seats.
I guess many on here believe that you should always plan at least 24 hours either side of a connecting flight, meeting, event etc. etc. (and associated time off work, and hotel and meal costs) whenever flying on AC in order to protect yourself against AC's greed/poor handling of overbooking. That's truly a pathetic state of affairs.
Travel Insurance would have covered a missed flight connection due to weather delays, mechanical situations etc and Trip Interruption benefits would have given her access to purchase new flights, cover hotels, etc. in order to catch up with her itinerary and get down to Ecuador.
Travel Insurance does not typically cover missed connection because of an airlines greed / poor business practices / or their poor handling of their decision to sell more tickets than there are seats.
I guess many on here believe that you should always plan at least 24 hours either side of a connecting flight, meeting, event etc. etc. (and associated time off work, and hotel and meal costs) whenever flying on AC in order to protect yourself against AC's greed/poor handling of overbooking. That's truly a pathetic state of affairs.
Apr 21, 2017, 12:50 pm
#94
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: YVR
Posts: 1,465
The problem is AC did not rebook her quickly on another flight, instead just telling her to go away. Looks like there were options available, but by the time AC actually got around to dealing with that, the options were gone.
Apr 21, 2017, 12:50 pm
#95
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Canada
Programs: AS, DL, UA, Hyatt, SPG
Posts: 2,574
If you know me, you'd know I tend to take the side of the consumers. I am not blaming the passenger, I am simply surprised by some very obvious mishaps and logic errors that could have minimized the situation, even considering her inexperience wrt to flying.
Flying on the day of cruise departure is only advised if you are near that location and if there are several flights to that place. Even then, weather can still be unpredictable even in April - a sudden snowstorm is not unheard of.
Flying on the day of cruise departure is only advised if you are near that location and if there are several flights to that place. Even then, weather can still be unpredictable even in April - a sudden snowstorm is not unheard of.
Apr 21, 2017, 1:05 pm
#96
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,130
I don't understand why people insist on blaming AC for this.
AC overbooks. AC will bump. They say this. It's on their website. It's a risk. It's a well publicized risk. They offer compensation when it happens, and will rebook you on the next available flight.
Nothing about this case seems exceptional, and poor planning on the part of the passenger or the travel agent turned this into a story.
AC overbooks. AC will bump. They say this. It's on their website. It's a risk. It's a well publicized risk. They offer compensation when it happens, and will rebook you on the next available flight.
Nothing about this case seems exceptional, and poor planning on the part of the passenger or the travel agent turned this into a story.
There is no mention of "AC overlooks. AC will bump". It may be published somewhere else on the website, but like information on delayed baggage, it is not unreasonable for a customer to not go looking for it 'just in case'.
Why doesn't AC publish the possibility of IDB in its tango fare box, fare details and T&Cs? Once it does, I'll agree with you that it's all out in the open. Right now, your unsubstantiated claims notwithstanding, It's not as well publicized as it should be
Apr 21, 2017, 1:11 pm
#97
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Join Date: May 2002
Location: YEG
Programs: HH Silver
Posts: 56,441
Apr 21, 2017, 1:14 pm
#98
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: OSL
Programs: AC SE
Posts: 303
Overbooking is pretty much industry standard. I'm not sure why people are surprised.
https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/...e-tariffs.html
Schedules and timetables
Time and aircraft type shown in timetables or elsewhere are approximate and not guaranteed, and form no part of the contract. Schedules are subject to change without notice and carrier assumes no responsibility for passenger making connections not included as part of the itinerary set out in the ticket. Carrier is not responsible for changes, errors or omissions either in timetables or other representations of schedules.
Time and aircraft type shown in timetables or elsewhere are approximate and not guaranteed, and form no part of the contract. Schedules are subject to change without notice and carrier assumes no responsibility for passenger making connections not included as part of the itinerary set out in the ticket. Carrier is not responsible for changes, errors or omissions either in timetables or other representations of schedules.
Apr 21, 2017, 1:15 pm
#99
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,130
IMO the passenger's mistake was booking with Air Canada. That may have been the fault of the TA/Tour company. She may have been better off booking with Delta, AA or even United since from my experience and from some of the posts here, there would have been more genuine help at the airport.
If these are the kind of pushovers AC is used to dealing with - the kind that will happily absolve AC of any responsibility without prompting - they probably don't feel the need to address issues. It's her fault for not knowing that.
I don't have an issue with overbooking. I just don't understand why airlines don't advertise it upfront in the manner that their mouthpieces here claim they do. Put it in bright red on the Tango fare booking pages...and carry on. It's all legit, normal and acceptable after all, so what risk could advertising it clearly possible pose?
Apr 21, 2017, 1:21 pm
#100
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Providence RI
Programs: American Exec Plat, Hyatt Refugeeist, Marriot Gold, Air Canada Cattle Class, Korean Air Morning Plat
Posts: 988
THIS quote from the article
""It was extremely upsetting," she said. "The woman could not have been more rude, hostile. In all my years of travelling, I have never had a travel person treat me so badly."
THIS is the reason. THIS is the problem. THIS is Air Canada.
and more "The series of errors that they made, their lack of apology, their disinterest in helping me is appalling," she said.
THAT is why this is Air Canada's problem.
I think a lot of posters on here are badly misjudging the knowledge gap between frequent flyers and people who take a flight once in a while. People on here are saying "well she shouldn't have flown Rouge" or "YYZ to MIA is rouge". The entire reason this person went through a travel agent was to avoid this type of insanity. Most of us agree that the travel agent should have built in a day in case of this.
The average pax who is not a frequent flyer has a great deal of difficulty with overbooking.
- you buy a ticket to a football game. On game day you don't get turned away because they sold too many seats and you bought the least amount of merchandise.
- you buy a ticket to a movie. You don't get turned away by the teenager standing at the door saying because you bought no popcorn, we are going to turn you away because we sold too many seats.
- you buy a ticket to an amusement park. You don't get turned away from the rides because too many people bought the 'to-the-front-of-the-line' pass for you to do any rides.
We can go on and on. CBC is not reporting on this for the 5% of the population who are frequent flyers. CBC is reporting on this for the 95% of people who are not and do not deal with this on a weekly basis.
I agree the screw up was with the travel agent. However AC, as AC always manages to do, turns another companies screw up into their own problem. I have grumbled about AC for awhile, mostly due to a small but very determined number employees who are jaded and rude.
This bad publicity is down to rude employees and lack of any assistance. AC has done it again.
""It was extremely upsetting," she said. "The woman could not have been more rude, hostile. In all my years of travelling, I have never had a travel person treat me so badly."
THIS is the reason. THIS is the problem. THIS is Air Canada.
and more "The series of errors that they made, their lack of apology, their disinterest in helping me is appalling," she said.
THAT is why this is Air Canada's problem.
I think a lot of posters on here are badly misjudging the knowledge gap between frequent flyers and people who take a flight once in a while. People on here are saying "well she shouldn't have flown Rouge" or "YYZ to MIA is rouge". The entire reason this person went through a travel agent was to avoid this type of insanity. Most of us agree that the travel agent should have built in a day in case of this.
The average pax who is not a frequent flyer has a great deal of difficulty with overbooking.
- you buy a ticket to a football game. On game day you don't get turned away because they sold too many seats and you bought the least amount of merchandise.
- you buy a ticket to a movie. You don't get turned away by the teenager standing at the door saying because you bought no popcorn, we are going to turn you away because we sold too many seats.
- you buy a ticket to an amusement park. You don't get turned away from the rides because too many people bought the 'to-the-front-of-the-line' pass for you to do any rides.
We can go on and on. CBC is not reporting on this for the 5% of the population who are frequent flyers. CBC is reporting on this for the 95% of people who are not and do not deal with this on a weekly basis.
I agree the screw up was with the travel agent. However AC, as AC always manages to do, turns another companies screw up into their own problem. I have grumbled about AC for awhile, mostly due to a small but very determined number employees who are jaded and rude.
This bad publicity is down to rude employees and lack of any assistance. AC has done it again.
Apr 21, 2017, 1:30 pm
#101
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,130
https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/...questions.html
Overbooking is pretty much industry standard. I'm not sure why people are surprised.
I don't entirely disagree, but this doesn't just apply to Tango fares. Sure, they're the most likely - tango non-status passengers are probably the first target in case of overbooking.
https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/...e-tariffs.html
Overbooking is pretty much industry standard. I'm not sure why people are surprised.
I don't entirely disagree, but this doesn't just apply to Tango fares. Sure, they're the most likely - tango non-status passengers are probably the first target in case of overbooking.
https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/...e-tariffs.html
If it's not Tango-specific, advertise it clearly during the booking process for all of the fare buckets it may apply in. It's all legal, industry standard and not hidden, so why the reluctance to display it clearly?
Until airlines advertise it clearly, they will continue to shoulder some blame for not being as forthcoming as they should be.
Last edited by yulred; Apr 21, 2017 at 1:36 pm
Apr 21, 2017, 1:37 pm
#102
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: YYZ, MNL, WAW
Programs: Marriott Titanium, Lifetime Plat, (now an AC nobody)
Posts: 1,978
THIS quote from the article
""It was extremely upsetting," she said. "The woman could not have been more rude, hostile. In all my years of travelling, I have never had a travel person treat me so badly."
THIS is the reason. THIS is the problem. THIS is Air Canada.
and more "The series of errors that they made, their lack of apology, their disinterest in helping me is appalling," she said.
THAT is why this is Air Canada's problem.
I think a lot of posters on here are badly misjudging the knowledge gap between frequent flyers and people who take a flight once in a while. People on here are saying "well she shouldn't have flown Rouge" or "YYZ to MIA is rouge". The entire reason this person went through a travel agent was to avoid this type of insanity. Most of us agree that the travel agent should have built in a day in case of this.
The average pax who is not a frequent flyer has a great deal of difficulty with overbooking.
- you buy a ticket to a football game. On game day you don't get turned away because they sold too many seats and you bought the least amount of merchandise.
- you buy a ticket to a movie. You don't get turned away by the teenager standing at the door saying because you bought no popcorn, we are going to turn you away because we sold too many seats.
- you buy a ticket to an amusement park. You don't get turned away from the rides because too many people bought the 'to-the-front-of-the-line' pass for you to do any rides.
We can go on and on. CBC is not reporting on this for the 5% of the population who are frequent flyers. CBC is reporting on this for the 95% of people who are not and do not deal with this on a weekly basis.
I agree the screw up was with the travel agent. However AC, as AC always manages to do, turns another companies screw up into their own problem. I have grumbled about AC for awhile, mostly due to a small but very determined number employees who are jaded and rude.
This bad publicity is down to rude employees and lack of any assistance. AC has done it again.
""It was extremely upsetting," she said. "The woman could not have been more rude, hostile. In all my years of travelling, I have never had a travel person treat me so badly."
THIS is the reason. THIS is the problem. THIS is Air Canada.
and more "The series of errors that they made, their lack of apology, their disinterest in helping me is appalling," she said.
THAT is why this is Air Canada's problem.
I think a lot of posters on here are badly misjudging the knowledge gap between frequent flyers and people who take a flight once in a while. People on here are saying "well she shouldn't have flown Rouge" or "YYZ to MIA is rouge". The entire reason this person went through a travel agent was to avoid this type of insanity. Most of us agree that the travel agent should have built in a day in case of this.
The average pax who is not a frequent flyer has a great deal of difficulty with overbooking.
- you buy a ticket to a football game. On game day you don't get turned away because they sold too many seats and you bought the least amount of merchandise.
- you buy a ticket to a movie. You don't get turned away by the teenager standing at the door saying because you bought no popcorn, we are going to turn you away because we sold too many seats.
- you buy a ticket to an amusement park. You don't get turned away from the rides because too many people bought the 'to-the-front-of-the-line' pass for you to do any rides.
We can go on and on. CBC is not reporting on this for the 5% of the population who are frequent flyers. CBC is reporting on this for the 95% of people who are not and do not deal with this on a weekly basis.
I agree the screw up was with the travel agent. However AC, as AC always manages to do, turns another companies screw up into their own problem. I have grumbled about AC for awhile, mostly due to a small but very determined number employees who are jaded and rude.
This bad publicity is down to rude employees and lack of any assistance. AC has done it again.
Great post.
Apr 21, 2017, 1:49 pm
#103
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: YYC
Posts: 23,791
But I don't see how a cruise to the Galapagos would leave from Miami, except if going through the Panama canal first? (That could be though. Just makes it longer.)
Apr 21, 2017, 1:53 pm
#105
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: YVR
Programs: Air Canada Super Elite 2+ Million Miles
Posts: 2,478
And now that we know the traveler had a separate ticket, the reason this traveller missed their connection, and AC has no responsibility for missing this connection, is the traveller chose a separate itinerary.
Insurance would have covered missed connection for direct flight to Ecuador - Way more to this story, and CBC should be ashamed for not reporting the full picture and why the travellers blaming AC for something fully within their control to have resolved long before.
Last edited by skybluesea; Apr 21, 2017 at 1:55 pm Reason: Spelling errors