mromalley

I think the car service issue shows how inexperienced her staff is within this regard. No one thought to check what fair market value is for a car service run and question why the invoice was so much higher.

Book car service - oh the owner is a nice liberal, he'll give us a good deal.
Invoice comes in and gets paid.
Car service owner laughs on the way to the bank

ridefar

The issue is (not picking on you Frayed_Yak--and great name btw) not that she expensed $500 but that there isn't a policy. Is it reasonable? Is it not reasonable? Opinions may differ. But why the isn't there a standard policy for federal MPs, ministers, etc. for stuff like this. The make it up as you go will always get abused. That isn't a liberal thing, or a conservative thing, that is a human nature thing. Which is why companies have travel policies. So put a policy in place, state that it applies to all MPs (and have a different one for cabinet if necessary) and stick to it. It is just basic professionalism.

1Newflyer

There are too many policies and laws already. Policies can always be interpreted many ways, so whats the point. We all agree it seems that $500 is nothing to debate about. Lets talk about biiiiiiiiiiiiig issues.

james dean

Because its "death by a thousand cuts" and when it comes to the fed Gov't if you can't trust them with the little things how the H*LL can you trust them with the big things, like your hard earned tax-payer $$$...

ridefar

Took the words out of my mouth. Just like when a journalist or a news organization gets something very wrong (like when they report on your area of specialty in tech, for example) and you know it is just so wrong. You then think: when they are reporting on something else I know little about, what are the odds they get it right? If I was very knowledgeable in that field, would I think they are just as wrong there too? Same thing with politicians and policies and money. If they can't come up with a reasonable set of rules for the little stuff, how can we possibly trust them with the big stuff? I am largely apolitical so this is no more about one party than another, but does any of us (who know travel well) really think the travel budgets make any sense at all? How does a cabinet of 40 spend $500,000 on a weekend? Lets be honest, unless they all flew business class that would be hard. Really hard. How does somebody think: "Yeah, its a great idea to send 396 Canadian delegates to the Paris climate conference... twice as much as GB or USA"??? So I don't understand the politics of climate science negotiations, but I do understand travel policy. I think politicians get an epic fail on travel policy, so I am inclined to argue by analogy and think the Paris thing was an epic fail too. So it really a trust and competency issue. That is why $500 matters. Not because it is $500, but because that is how trust is destroyed. Yes there are a lot of really important issues at hand. No argument. But how is a regular guy like me supposed to believe we can trust them to do those well when they can't handle the little things?

Transpacificflyer

And I believe you are wrong. here is the policy;

When people who travel commercially on government business qualify for financial benefits offered by airlines arising from travel, such as free tickets or compensation for rescheduled flights offered by airlines, these benefits are the property of the Crown. With respect to loyalty points such as Air Miles, the National Joint Council (NJC) Travel Directive has been extended to ministers and their exempt staff. Under the Directive, loyalty points collected during official government travel can be used for business or personal travel. When used for personal travel, they are a taxable benefit. For further information, see Loyalty and other points programs.

quantumofforce

I thought aeroplan points had no financial value, so they're taxed at a rate of zero?

Jumper Jack

You value something publically conservatively.
How one value something privately.. well

sokolov

I'd be happy to pay my share. They can work in the lounge, and that is what we pay them for. Not for waiting at the gate. I'd rather they fly Eco and charge us for lounge access, than fly business class.

This outrage is ridiculous political fake outrage. We want good politicians, so we need to pay them well and give them resources. That should include a lounge pass, if the travel often enough.

misapply

It's been years since government officials can finally enjoy their job. Stop being a naysayer.

Sopwith

There are two reasons we get the riff raff we do as our politicians:

1. We don't pay them anywhere near enough;

2. We trash and vilify them over almost any trivial, picayune, inconsequential issue.

The result, of course, is that good people won't take the job. Why would they? So we end up with what we do, many of whom are demonstrably unfit for their jobs. A lot of the time we knew they'd turn out to be unfit, but we elected them anyway.

So how do we get out of this vicious downward spiral? Our modern crop of politicians often deserve the treatment they get, but if we keep doing it, how are we going to attract the top notch, highly capable talent we need to run our multi-billion dollar ministries?

Those of use who are old enough to remember Pogo will remember his famous quotation: "We have seen the enemy, and he is us!"

(It's kinda like how we select an airline. As long as we keep buying cheap tickets, they'll keep cutting costs and comfort to give us what we buy.)

Transpacificflyer

Of course they have a value. The issue has been discussed in detail here within the AC forum. Aeroplan even assigns a purchase cost to an aeromile when it sells them to retailers. Aeroplan also will sell customers aeromiles if the customer is "short".
Top-Up
Your Aeroplan account with the missing Miles while booking any flight, car or hotel reward. Just begin your booking - we will calculate your missing Aeroplan Miles and show you your total top-up cost payable by credit card.

They must have a value otherwise there is no contract effected. Remember, one of the conditions for a contract is that there must be consideration. The reason Revenue Canada does not consider them to be taxable unless cashed in or used as a form of payment for services, is because the miles awarded are part of the airline ticket purchase. If you look at the fare page, you will see that the airline states that it gives a specified number of aeromiles for each transaction. Basically, the aeromiles are "purchased" as part of the airfare transaction.
Trust this answers your query.

quantumofforce

Well, you preambled what could have led to an answer... now please continue and explain how they are valued and taxed by the CRA.

AltaBound

Somewhere there is a tax accountant/lawyer that will remember the case. CRA took the position that the taxable benefit should be at the FMV of the ticket. The court disagreed and said the value was at the level that AC assigned for its costing purposes,in those days cost of meal etc. since seats were theoretically "empty". I cannot remember the amount the court assessed but it was very low. If I was guessing, somewhere between $0.005 and $0.02 per mile

24left

From November 2005. See posts 1 and 2

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-c...0-04-mile.html

And linked in the thread is

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-c...nts-miles.html

Where post #12 has the CRA Opinion