yyznomad

Ok ok ok... it's my turn. Here's my question for all you armchair AC lifetime 47,265 milers. Hopefully a helpful answer can be provided rather quickly.

Aside: I know many of you like to "metapost", that is, post about the quality or your own perceived validity of a post, instead of directly addressing the OP's question/post... so I ask that anyone itching to be a fartbag, poobag, etc. to refrain so that I can get some useful responses. Once the useful responses have been provided and I thank all of you, said fartbags may then add in there cheap 2 cents worth. Please and thank you.


Passenger: "PAX Z"
Ticket: 014 ticket stock
Status: E50K (non-lifetime)
Fare class: All segments Flex
Citizenship: Canadian (born, bred, and raised)
Passport: CANADA
Outbound Leg: YYJ (AC) YYZ (AC) FRA (LH) GOT
Outbound R/N class: R on YYJ YYZ (couldn't get N on TATL in advance)
2nd Leg: GOT (SK) LHR (AC) YYZ (AC) HAV
2nd Leg R/N class: N on LHR YYZ
Cuba Visa: Appropriate Visa obtained prior to commencement of entire trip
Return Leg: HAV (AC) YYZ (AC) YVR (AC) YYJ (AC)
Return R class: R on YYZ YVR
Planned duration of entire trip on the booking: 30 calendar days
Planned duration of stay in Schengen: 6 calendar days


This is what happened...

PAX Z gets to YYZ E gate for YYZ FRA flight but the GA denies PAX Z boarding because PAX Z's Canadian passport is about to expire in 45 days. PAX Z was unaware of the 90 day validity requirement for Schengen. AC872 took off and PAX Z was stuck in YYZ.

So, for you rocket scientists and armchair AC lifetime 47,265 milers out there (anyone else may also assist/respond)...

1. What must AC do for PAX Z, if applicable?
2. What should AC do for PAX Z, if applicable?
3. What should PAX Z do?

Thanks in advance.

canadiancow

The passenger did not have valid travel documents.

AC did what they must do - deny boarding.

I'm not even sure what AC "should" do. It's not like "I ran late and missed the flight" where you could get rebooked tomorrow. If you can get the passport renewed overnight, maybe try for that?

I guess that also covers what the passenger should do.

Transpacificflyer

I believe that there is no obligation to do anything except refund as per fare rules of purchase. Onus is on pax to be compliant with immigration rules/entry requirements of destination. I live with the 6 mo. Rule as it is enforced in SE Asia. I just renewed passpprt early for this reason.

SparseFlyer

First of all, I flew 62,000 miles. Thank you very much.


Second of all, let me explain this to you since I know more than you.


Your friend ....ed up, should've known the rules.


I'm curious to know what happened though. I was under the impression that the X day requirement was to ensure that passports were valid for the same length of time as the Visas emitted so that even if someone extends their stay to the full length allowed on a visitor Visa, their passport is still valid.

Assuming that is true, I wonder what the tolerance would be for someone that shows up with with a return ticket inside the passport expiry window.

So then, assuming that's the case, and there is a leeway at the custom's discretion, then AC can't really make a decision to refuse boarding, which would mean IDB? Maybe the pax gets to do a R/T to the second stop and lose the first leg? Dunno.


I'm curious to know what will end up happening though. I'm sure there is room for goodwill if played right.

I once realized that my passport expired when I was going somewhere with similar requirements, and I paid for 1 day shipping or something at Guy Favreau to pick it up myself and make sure I get it in time... Didn't have the balls to risk it.


Edit: inb4 pax should be sent home and not reimbursed

eigenvector

See the relevant tariff section attached. The passenger is not entitled to anything, including refund of any fare paid or transportation back to the originating domestic point.

canadiancow

When I got my 5 (?) year H1B, my passport expired Feb 7 2016.

So the visa expired Feb 7 2016.

But the USA lets Canadians enter as long as they'll be leaving by the time their passport expires. It was a little awkward entering the country in November 25 with no return flight booked, but "I'll be back up over Christmas to renew my passport" satisfied them.

Visas can definitely be issued with "custom" expiry dates, but you still need to meet the entry requirements. Going into the US, you do not need a set number of days with a Canadian passport. If you do need a certain threshold for going to Europe, then AC did nothing wrong.

IDB compensation is very specifically only for overbooking situations.

eigenvector

@SparseFlyer

The Schengen zone code stipulates that non-Schengen nationals shall possess a travel document which expires no earlier than 90 days after the date of intended departure (not entry) from the Schengen zone.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/...01:0018:EN:PDF

Since this is an actual government regulation and not an AC discretionary matter, I don't think AC has any obligation to the pax in this instance.

SparseFlyer

Well. I don't know much about law, but the fact it says "in a justifiable case of emergency" implies that there is leeway to be determined at the border.

Sure, we don't know if OP was in an emergency, but then who decides what a justifiable cause for emergency is? AC? Or the customs agent?

So then does AC really have a say? Seems to me like a R/T ticket within the period is reasonable, especially if the trip has 30 days or so of "leeway".

How do they treat it in Mexico when a traveller comes for a 1 week all inclusive? Don't they have a 90 requirement too? I have a feeling the agent wouldn't care, cause they'd expect the vacationer to leave before PPT expiry.


Of course, I'm not stating this as fact, but simply brainstorming scenarios for the sake of discussion, and to try and find a way for OP to figure something out.


But I thought AC needed my PPT information (including expiry) on booking.

So why sell me a ticket without the proper passport and wait until the gate to tell me?

I guess IT limitations?

MSPeconomist

Note that the document you quote says three months, not ninety days.

eigenvector

It would certainly be incredibly useful for airline websites to spit out a list of visa requirements for the trip you've just booked, using TIMATIC.

Thanks, my mistake.

MSPeconomist

Then GAs would find it harder to insist that they know the (wrong) visa rules based on their preconceptions and beliefs with a few rumors added to the mix.

It's not difficult to use TIMATIC yourself, although doing this correctly is beyond the abilities of even very senior supervisor-type GAs and other airport customer service agents.

canadiancow

No, it's optional.

If you enter it, OLCI asks significantly fewer questions.

If you don't, OLCI takes a bit longer.

1Newflyer

1. Deny boarding
2. Deny boarding
3. Add this outcome to traveling experience.

You are welcomed.

yyznomad

...And there it is...

D582

1. Nothing. AC correctly denied boarding on an international flight to a pax without appropriate travel documents. Per their own tariffs, they don't owe the pax anything.

2. In my opinion, return pax to YYJ at no cost to pax. Rationale: AC (or any airline) at the first point of origin should verify that the pax has appropriate travel documents for entry at their next stopover point and for transit at all transfer points. In this instance, GOT is next stopover and YYZ and FRA are transfer points. So YYJ agents should verify documents for FRA/GOT even though first flight is domestic. If AC system does not prompt for docs check in YYJ, then system is broken and AC should fix. If it did prompt for docs check and agent cleared or did not properly verify, then still AC's fault. If YYZ was a stopover, then see answer to #1. Example from other airline : I flew SFO-IAH-GIG on UA. Even though SFO-IAH is domestic and no travel documents needed, I still had to check in with an agent in SFO for them to verify my Brazil visa.

3. Get a new passport.