ffsim

Why? I genuinely don't understand. Maybe the airline looks at it that way because, as tracon pointed out above, because they stand to lose a fair bit of revenue if parties > 1 "share" a J seat throughout the flight. While it's not like 2 meals will be served, I fully appreciate that snacks and alcohol consumption will likely be higher than if one unique passenger occupied the seat.

But I don't understand why other J pax should care unless they're being bothered.

Or unless it's a class issue.

grandgourmand

that's just like your opinion man.

kidding.

you are adding an assumption that, while simple sounding and logical, is difficult to achieve in reality because people can frequently be disruptive and inconsiderate. not saying OP falls into this camp at all...just making a general observation.

rickg523

+1 - and thanks for taking the time to add the disruption factor. My point was the idea that swapping or visiting is not objectionable between two J's but is between a J and Y, is at heart a vestigal expression of a senseless class system. It's all about and only about the curtain (btw, I fly only J on anything longer than 3 hours. I like J).

canadiancow

Yes, because it's only bad when the girl's in the back.

Sexism only works one way.

I'm flying YVR-HKG with a friend. We'd both like to get 5 hours of sleep.

So we buy one J seat and one Y seat, swapping halfway through.

You really don't see why AC would have an issue with that arrangement?

ffsim

I've already conceded that AC would have an issue with that arrangement.

I was responding to suggestions that other J pax have issue with this on a class basis. I agree with that suggestion because if -- again, ONLY IF -- "swappers" are as discreet in swapping, then other J pax should not be concerned with said swap.

canadiancow

I just don't see it being discreet.

When I get up to pee, I slide my tray forward, lower the aisle armrest, get out, and go.

When I get up to move to another cabin, I slide my tray forward, lower the aisle armrest, pack up all my stuff, grab something from the overhead bin, etc.

Then the other person does the opposite.

Unless they're leaving all their stuff in their original seat, it's not going to be "discreet".

And I'll get right back to my original point. If I notice, it's not discreet.

rickg523

The same objection would arise if all done by two J pax, right? Because swapping seats Y to J doesn't have to involve moving stuff at all.
Same goes for cleaning out the snax, right? Or gabbing loudly and incessantly. Certainly in my experience, loud and obnoxious don't always get left at the gate in J.
This is about courtesy and disruption, not at all about the fare paid, right? Except to the carrier of course. For them it's ALL about the fare.

ffsim

Then we have different definitions of being discreet. If you can get out of your seat when you slide your tray forward, lower the aisle armrest, get out and go, then someone can come right back into the seat without doing anything else.

And since when has grabbing stuff from an overhead bin become such a no-no in J? I'll admit that maybe I'm rusty on my J etiquette, but I'll keep things in the overhead bin until I need them. At which point I'll open the bin, take down my bag, grab what I need, put the bag back, and close the bin. Again, if someone comes with a laptop bag to take my seat, there's absolutely no extra disruption versus what going on in a J cabin on any given flight.

I totally get that AC doesn't want this. It's not good for AC from a business standpoint and they may very well have policies in place to prevent such swaps. Good for them, and good for the SDs for enforcing those policies. But any J passenger who complains about a ninja-style swap which causes no more ruckus than any normal activity in any normal J cabin is simply not minding their own business. Or wants to feel superior about sitting up front. I'll accept either of those explanations.

YYT82

Reading this thread gives me chuckles. Next time I fly long TATL in J (something like YYC-FRA or longer) I'm going to make sure I drink lots of fluid throughout the flight and visit the washroom as often as possible.

quantumofforce

Have some baked beans while you're at it.

folkart

I've swapped with my wife in both directions once or twice and several times had the SD offer to send a desert or glass if wine back to steerage. It doesn't hurt to pleasantly, discretly ask and pleasantly accept whatever they say.

canadiancow

It's not a "no-no in J".

It's a "no-no" when you're doing it to trade places with someone, in the middle of the flight.

It's a matter of "how much of this would not have happened if you'd both been sitting in your ticketed cabin the entire flight".

gcashin

Here's an example of why this is not OK and how seat swaps can disturb other passengers. I was traveling in J on a TPAC AC flight. The passenger next to me was traveling in J, while it seemed that his wife and kids were traveling in Y.

About an hour after dinner, and just after I'd gotten to sleep, I was woken up by some commotion nearby. The passenger's son had joined, and the dad was standing next to my pod, giving the son a lecture on how to recline and adjust the pod, as well as chatting in general. I was annoyed, but figured it was over with, so went back to sleep.

About 4 hours later I was woken up again with the dad back in J to swap back to his J seat, standing above my seat and having a loud conversation as they swapped seats again. So they did 2 seat swaps during the flight, with the Dad sitting in the J seat for the two meals, and the son using the J seat for a ~4 hour nap mid-flight.

Needless to say, I was not pleased being woken up twice during the flight.

This is why J seat swaps are not OK.

ffsim

Fair enough... I guess I was previously taken aback by this suggestion


My point, which either you disagree with (that's fair) or I haven't made clear enough (very likely), is that it's the exact same noise/disruption/process as a J pax getting some stuff from his bag. And the argument completely goes away if neither swapper has any cabin baggage -- it's literally a case of "I got up to go to the washroom and someone else took my seat." Unless you're checking ID, you shouldn't even notice.

24left

It seems that some posters here see no problem of mid-flight swap, others see no problem if done with no disruption of other (J) pax, and some have an issue - with valid reasons.

Does anyone know if there is an Air Canada policy on these matters?

Does anyone know what to do should the SD not want to do anything when approached?


REMINDER

The airlines created FFPs. The airlines decided on the names and requirements for each level.

Essentially what resulted was a class-based society above the clouds.

Those who flew a lot and/or paid a lot to be at the top of "society" may get a wee bit annoyed should others try to get access to their goodies without paying for them. Look at FT, not just AC, but other airline and hotel forums. There are many threads on these matters.

For some of you it might be annoying. People taking food and snacks from J who did not pay to sit in J is annoying to me, Y and J pax swapping seats might be annoying to others.

We all get to be annoyed and I think this is partly the net result of these programs.

Nobility/Aristocracy vs Peasants - Frequent Flying Division.
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