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Old May 26, 2016, 8:39 am
  #16  
 
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Originally Posted by RN29
I've done about 60 segments this year. About 65/35 Air Canada / United.

Taking the airport out of the equation, I find it's a bit a joke whenever Air Canada publishes a departure time. I have yet to ever leave on time or early.

..........

I'm curious if I'm just an incredibly unlucky flyer or others also experience this.
If think you're looking at this from a very superficial point of view.

There are several factors that are taken into account when departure/arrival times are established.

1. Push back from the gate
        2. Wheels-up time - this really is the important time to meet.
          3. Landing time
            4. Gate arrival time.

              Most airlines consider a flight to be "on-time" if the push-back/arrival is within 15 minutes of the scheduled time. Based on that criteria, I'd say more than 95% of my flights are on-time. Most push back within a minute or two of scheduled departure and landing is within 10 minutes of scheduled landing times.

              So, as you can see, departure/arrival is not as simple as it may appear.

              I wouldn't say you're unlucky at all, I looked at the last four months worth of flight times for AC701 and the on-time arrival seems to be early is most cases. ^

              Last edited by jaysona; May 26, 2016 at 9:16 am
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              Old May 26, 2016, 9:49 am
                #17  
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              Originally Posted by YZF_Elite
              I
              I also have some personal 'rules'. I try my best to avoid YYC in Winter and YYZ anytime when flying domestic, especially during thunderstorm season. YYZ is hard to avoid when flying intl/transborder and US cxns are usually from equally problematic UA hubs.
              Not sure there is much of a rationale for avoiding YYC in winter. Winter weather performance at YYC is surely much more reliable than most/all eastern airports given the relatively little amount of precipitation we get here. May well be better than YVR too. Of course deicing can become an issue, but that's not worse than most other Canadian airports.

              As to AC on time performance, it had become bad a couple of years ago, but it seems to have gone significantly better lately. I don't recall any really bad experience in the last year or so. No missed connection, no significant delay as far as I am concerned.
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              Old May 26, 2016, 10:07 am
                #18  
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              Originally Posted by Jumper Jack
              North American airlines ranked by average OTP for 2015

              1. Hawaiian Airlines, 89.11%
              2. Alaska Airlines, 86.38%
              3. Westjet, 85.88%
              4. Delta Air Lines, 84.46%
              5. Southwest, 82.12%
              6. Virgin America, 81.58%
              7. American Airlines, 80.14%
              8. Air Canada, 79.46%
              9. United Airlines, 78.99%
              10. JetBlue, 78.26%


              For all four months of January, February,March, Apri in 2016 so far.
              AC is behind AA,UA,DL for On Time Ranking for Main Line Flights , hovering around 74-75%
              AC also has never managed to crack top half in rankings of global airlines for OTR this year.
              Source: http://www.flightstats.com/company/m...orts/airlines/
              Weather plays a big roll in these %. AC has never been at the top because if YYZ get weather issues, the Canadian system get effected. AC is effected more than WestJet because a greater % of AC fleet passes thought YYZ everyday.
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              Old May 26, 2016, 10:10 am
                #19  
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              Originally Posted by RZR
              I had 3 flights this week. All left on time or early.
              Out of my 46 AC flights this year, only 1 was delayed(non weather). I did have a few others delayed due to weather.
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              Old May 26, 2016, 10:16 am
                #20  
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              Psychologically, push back is very important as passengers sense that it is something within the airline's control. If there's a huge queue at the end of the runway for take-off, or you have to circle for an age waiting to land, it's irritating (and stressful if you need to be somewhere) but people don't see it as the airline's fault.
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              Old May 26, 2016, 10:20 am
                #21  
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              Originally Posted by Wpgjetse
              Out of my 46 AC flights this year, only 1 was delayed(non weather). I did have a few others delayed due to weather.
              I am batting 100% myself.
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              Old May 26, 2016, 10:28 am
                #22  
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              Originally Posted by lhrsfo
              Psychologically, push back is very important as passengers sense that it is something within the airline's control. If there's a huge queue at the end of the runway for take-off, or you have to circle for an age waiting to land, it's irritating (and stressful if you need to be somewhere) but people don't see it as the airline's fault.
              Push Back is not controlled by the airline. The airline only informs the tower when they are ready to go. The tower can hold aircraft at gate for many reasons. Some of the reasons are, weather at departing airport, weather at arriving airport, de-icing bays are full, airport congestion, shifting winds(runway change), air traffic control congestion(big problem in Asia), etc, etc.

              Last edited by Wpgjetse; May 26, 2016 at 11:01 am
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              Old May 26, 2016, 10:53 am
                #23  
               
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              Originally Posted by YOWkid
              To be honest, not sure on time departure matters all that much. It's on time arrival that matters more.
              Absolutely. And I say that while waiting to board a flight that just posted a 25-minute delay
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              Old May 26, 2016, 11:07 am
                #24  
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              Originally Posted by Wpgjetse
              Out of my 46 AC flights this year, only 1 was delayed(non weather). I did have a few others delayed due to weather.
              I have 48 AC segments to date in 2016 and would concur with your point of view
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              Old May 26, 2016, 12:19 pm
                #25  
               
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              Originally Posted by Stranger
              Not sure there is much of a rationale for avoiding YYC in winter. Winter weather performance at YYC is surely much more reliable than most/all eastern airports given the relatively little amount of precipitation we get here. May well be better than YVR too. Of course deicing can become an issue, but that's not worse than most other Canadian airports.

              As to AC on time performance, it had become bad a couple of years ago, but it seems to have gone significantly better lately. I don't recall any really bad experience in the last year or so. No missed connection, no significant delay as far as I am concerned.
              I formed my opinion when I was traveling to/from YZF a lot and before the new runway opened so in fairness things may have improved. I have found that eastern airports and YEG handle snow better than YYC. If I need to go to YVR or connect through YVR, I don't have much of a choice to avoid it so it really doesn't factor into my rules. Also anecdotal, but I find that poor weather in YYZ seems to be more predictable than YYC where it can be snowing unexpectedly anytime between September and the end of April.
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              Old May 26, 2016, 3:54 pm
                #26  
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              Originally Posted by YZF_Elite
              I
              I have found that eastern airports and YEG handle snow better than YYC. If I need to go to YVR or connect through YVR, I don't have much of a choice to avoid it so it really doesn't factor into my rules. Also anecdotal, but I find that poor weather in YYZ seems to be more predictable than YYC where it can be snowing unexpectedly anytime between September and the end of April.
              However YYC gets relatively little snow overall. Especially in the middle of winter.
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              Old May 26, 2016, 4:17 pm
                #27  
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              Originally Posted by Wpgjetse
              Weather plays a big roll in these %. AC has never been at the top because if YYZ get weather issues, the Canadian system get effected. AC is effected more than WestJet because a greater % of AC fleet passes thought YYZ everyday.
              Yeah that sure explains AC being behind AA and DL - those carriers would never have any issues with weather in JFK,DTW or ORD.
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              Old May 26, 2016, 4:57 pm
                #28  
               
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              Every AC TPAC I have been on for the past 2 years has arrived late. Typically 30-45 minutes late. It is particularly stressful when I have to transit to a domestic on my return. It's why I often cannot use the cheaper fares through YVR because the connection only allows 90 minutes.

              I don't enjoy the AC customer response when my incoming late arrival means I miss a connection. With AC's SOP to overbook, I often cannot obtain a seamless remediation. (And yes, I know a few of you super dooper elites with your nexus and who are on 1st name basis with the staff are taken care of. Unfortunately I am just a fool who paid $5000+ for my ticket and is poorly treated by the airline when it is late.) This is why I have reduced my flying with AC this year.
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              Old May 26, 2016, 5:20 pm
                #29  
               
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              Originally Posted by YOWkid
              To be honest, not sure on time departure matters all that much. It's on time arrival that matters more.

              All airlines pad their block times quite a bit (fair enough) to manage customers' expectations but more important to address airport and their own operational realities, and quite often, planes would rather sit at the gate instead of wasting gas to:
              - Circle / stack if they know they will arrive ahead of schedule (for example, if there is a curfew at the arrival airport -- I once sat at SIN for 35 minutes because tailwinds were so good that we would have circled Switzerland 20 times before ZRH's night curfew would be over) or
              - Taxi, waiting for a departure / arrival slot or gate.
              On-time arrival is of course important but as you mention, it's not really much of a performance indicator in itself given that they calculate on-time arrival not by the objectively necessary time span to fly a route but by their average expected performance.

              I suppose it is "okay" in the sense that your connection will be timed on that so you're not going to miss your connection if they perform to their own expectations. However, it's still basically a trick. The airlines can give themselves As because they can decide how many points they need to get an A.

              I can totally imagine that airline staff if not given proper incentives will abuse the 'padding' to take it easy if they're ahead of schedule. I am not sure if and how specific airlines track 'real' performance and reward staff that get the job done ahead of the padded 'estimated' time.
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              Old May 26, 2016, 5:31 pm
                #30  
               
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              Originally Posted by Transpacificflyer
              Every AC TPAC I have been on for the past 2 years has arrived late. Typically 30-45 minutes late. It is particularly stressful when I have to transit to a domestic on my return. It's why I often cannot use the cheaper fares through YVR because the connection only allows 90 minutes.

              I don't enjoy the AC customer response when my incoming late arrival means I miss a connection. With AC's SOP to overbook, I often cannot obtain a seamless remediation. (And yes, I know a few of you super dooper elites with your nexus and who are on 1st name basis with the staff are taken care of. Unfortunately I am just a fool who paid $5000+ for my ticket and is poorly treated by the airline when it is late.) This is why I have reduced my flying with AC this year.
              Did you message AC about this? I just have a long layover (3 hours) and don't notice any problems with pricing in that layover. Work is weird. They only allow PY for TPAC but I can spend $200+ on a meal while waiting for connections, so hello good wine!
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