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Stranded in YYT for 24 hours - passenger rights?

Stranded in YYT for 24 hours - passenger rights?

Old May 22, 2016, 10:52 am
  #1  
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Stranded in YYT for 24 hours - passenger rights?

Hello all - just paying a brief visit over from the BA forum!

So....my other half was flying YYZ-YYT-LHR last night but they experienced a bird strike on landing at YYT and so the aircraft was grounded for the night. She's been re-booked on tonight's YYT-LHR. I'm a commercial pilot myself so fully understand the nature of these things!

Apparently the ground staff in YYT were pretty useless but eventually they gave her a hotel and a 22 CAD voucher. They wouldn't help with her re-booking and so it took several phone calls from me to AC to get her on the next flight.

My question is, are AC obliged to do any more? My main gripe is 22 CAD doesn't get you much on an airport hotel (it just covered her breakfast). A taxi to town so that she can get lunch is gonna cost her around $40 return and she will need to use 1 extra vacation day as there's no chance she'll go to work after an overnight flight in Y!

In Europe she'd definitely get EU compensation amounting to several hundred $ - is it worth pressing AC for a bit more considering 24 hours is quite a significant delay?
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Old May 22, 2016, 11:01 am
  #2  
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Originally Posted by AllTheNines
Hello all - just paying a brief visit over from the BA forum!

So....my other half was flying YYZ-YYT-LHR last night but they experienced a bird strike on landing at YYT and so the aircraft was grounded for the night. She's been re-booked on tonight's YYT-LHR. I'm a commercial pilot myself so fully understand the nature of these things!

Apparently the ground staff in YYT were pretty useless but eventually they gave her a hotel and a 22 CAD voucher. They wouldn't help with her re-booking and so it took several phone calls from me to AC to get her on the next flight.

My question is, are AC obliged to do any more? My main gripe is 22 CAD doesn't get you much on an airport hotel (it just covered her breakfast). A taxi to town so that she can get lunch is gonna cost her around $40 return and she will need to use 1 extra vacation day as there's no chance she'll go to work after an overnight flight in Y!

In Europe she'd definitely get EU compensation amounting to several hundred $ - is it worth pressing AC for a bit more considering 24 hours is quite a significant delay?
No analogous protection in Canada to EU281 so AC will consider you lucky to get anything. You may get a pittance more if you call and waste your time on hold. Would not hold my breath for anything meaningful.
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Old May 22, 2016, 11:47 am
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Originally Posted by AllTheNines
Hello all - just paying a brief visit over from the BA forum!

So....my other half was flying YYZ-YYT-LHR last night but they experienced a bird strike on landing at YYT and so the aircraft was grounded for the night. She's been re-booked on tonight's YYT-LHR. I'm a commercial pilot myself so fully understand the nature of these things!

Apparently the ground staff in YYT were pretty useless but eventually they gave her a hotel and a 22 CAD voucher. They wouldn't help with her re-booking and so it took several phone calls from me to AC to get her on the next flight.

My question is, are AC obliged to do any more? My main gripe is 22 CAD doesn't get you much on an airport hotel (it just covered her breakfast). A taxi to town so that she can get lunch is gonna cost her around $40 return and she will need to use 1 extra vacation day as there's no chance she'll go to work after an overnight flight in Y!

In Europe she'd definitely get EU compensation amounting to several hundred $ - is it worth pressing AC for a bit more considering 24 hours is quite a significant delay?
I would say a bird strike is unlucky and not really AC fault, but it is their problem. I don't know even if it would qualify to get EU compensation under their rules. I would be happy with the hotel and make the most of it. I would have tried to get back to YYZ and take the day tripper. Can't she eat at the airport hotel? It's not AC responiblitiy that your wife wants to eat where it requires a taxi ride. At least it is a short flight to London.
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Old May 22, 2016, 5:44 pm
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Please don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that hitting a bird and grounding the aircraft is in any way Air Canada's fault. However, in Europe this would certainly have counted for EU compensation because ultimately the airline could have tried to minimise the delay e.g. fly in another aircraft, or try a different re-routing etc.

When I called and spoke to AC I asked if there was any way for her to get back to London quicker (i.e. via YUL/YYZ) so that she doesn't have to waste a vacation day at work, and I was told that waiting 24 hours was the only/fastest option. Perhaps I should have called back and tried another agent before accepting the new itinerary?

Yes she could have ate at the airport hotel, but spending 24 hours in an airport hotel is not particularly fun on a Sunday when you should be at home!

Anyway, it's not a big deal and it seems I would be wasting my time asking for anything further from AC. I just thought it'd be worth asking here first in case it turns out that I should have pressed for more!
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Old May 22, 2016, 6:57 pm
  #5  
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This doesnt qualify for compensation under EU law. You were flying into the EU not out of, on a non-eu carrier.

Just be thankful that they provided a hotel. Yes, you should have called in and demanded to be put on another carrier, or another routing that you researched beforehand, to get her there faster than 24 hours. AC wont provide you with a solution that will cost them money.

You will get a 10% discount code when you write in (which is on base fare only - so maybe 6-7% tops) - you can decide if its worth your time.

Otherwise, simply dont fly AC again if you dont like how they handled this.
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Old May 22, 2016, 7:00 pm
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FYI, WS now has 1x daily YYT-LGW (seasonal), it leaves two hours after the AC flight. Next time you really need to get there, it's an option, especially if you have travel insurance that will cover it.
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Old May 22, 2016, 7:17 pm
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Originally Posted by rankourabu
Otherwise, simply dont fly AC again if you dont like how they handled this.
Perhaps I'm missing something here but I sense a rather unfriendly tone to your response! You can hardly argue that a 24 hours delay is an ideal situation in any airline, regardless of what the reason was?

If I am told by a phone agent that this is the best option, who am I to question it? Why should it be my responsibility to phone back and push for a better solution? I explicitly asked if there were any quicker connections (even if she needed to head west via YYZ/YUL etc) and was told "no", YYT-LHR 24 hours later is the only option.

I only came on here to ask the "regulars" what the deal is over there. I fully understand EU compensation only applies for flights departing the EU, I just wanted to know if anything similar existed in Canada and/or if it was worth asking for anything extra. As the saying goes, "if you don't ask, you don't get".

Alas, it seems I am wasting my time so I will keep my mouth shut in future
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Old May 22, 2016, 7:24 pm
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Originally Posted by AllTheNines
Perhaps I'm missing something here but I sense a rather unfriendly tone to your response! You can hardly argue that a 24 hours delay is an ideal situation in any airline, regardless of what the reason was?

If I am told by a phone agent that this is the best option, who am I to question it? Why should it be my responsibility to phone back and push for a better solution? I explicitly asked if there were any quicker connections (even if she needed to head west via YYZ/YUL etc) and was told "no", YYT-LHR 24 hours later is the only option.

I only came on here to ask the "regulars" what the deal is over there. I fully understand EU compensation only applies for flights departing the EU, I just wanted to know if anything similar existed in Canada and/or if it was worth asking for anything extra. As the saying goes, "if you don't ask, you don't get".

Alas, it seems I am wasting my time so I will keep my mouth shut in future
I don't think anyone here is trying to defend AC. People are just giving you the facts: AC has no legal responsibilities to compensate you, nor do they proactively help you re-route during situations like these. This is the sad state of the airline market in Canada and the only way around it is to protect yourself with travel insurance that will let you buy your way out of such situations.
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Old May 22, 2016, 7:26 pm
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Originally Posted by eigenvector
FYI, WS now has 1x daily YYT-LGW (seasonal), it leaves two hours after the AC flight. Next time you really need to get there, it's an option, especially if you have travel insurance that will cover it.
Agreed. You would have paid about $270 for WS's n/s to YYT - LGW last night. No brainer.

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Old May 22, 2016, 7:29 pm
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Cool

Originally Posted by AllTheNines
Please don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that hitting a bird and grounding the aircraft is in any way Air Canada's fault. However, in Europe this would certainly have counted for EU compensation because ultimately the airline could have tried to minimise the delay e.g. fly in another aircraft, or try a different re-routing etc.
I really doubt there would be EU compensation for a similar problem in Europe, other than paying for hotel and food.
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Old May 22, 2016, 7:32 pm
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EC 261/2004 does not apply as AC is not an EU carrier and this is a service to, not from. the EU.

If it did apply, the carrier would have a "duty of care" no matter the reason for the delay/cancellation. While EC 261/2004 does not specify an amount for a 24-hour delay, CAD 22 would not likely be reasonable. But, as AC had no obligation at all, the hotel and CAD 22, are all she will see from AC.

It does not sound as though you proposed any other specific reroute. Perhaps had your wife (not you) done so, she might have received that. It is often the case that carriers will do what is asked if something is proposed. Harried agents at the airport will often do what is asked when presented with the exact flight numbers.

Similarly, if this were a flight xEU, there is nothing in EC 261/2004 which would require AC to reroute onto another carrier. Thus, with the exception of the difference between CAD 22 and what might be more reasonable, there really isn't any difference between what your wife would expect to/from the EU.

A more fruitful avenue here would be for your wife to claim against her travel interruption insurance.
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Old May 22, 2016, 7:40 pm
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Originally Posted by Often1
EC 261/2004 does not apply as AC is not an EU carrier and this is a service to, not from. the EU.

If it did apply, the carrier would have a "duty of care" no matter the reason for the delay/cancellation. While EC 261/2004 does not specify an amount for a 24-hour delay, CAD 22 would not likely be reasonable. But, as AC had no obligation at all, the hotel and CAD 22, are all she will see from AC.

It does not sound as though you proposed any other specific reroute. Perhaps had your wife (not you) done so, she might have received that. It is often the case that carriers will do what is asked if something is proposed. Harried agents at the airport will often do what is asked when presented with the exact flight numbers.

Similarly, if this were a flight xEU, there is nothing in EC 261/2004 which would require AC to reroute onto another carrier. Thus, with the exception of the difference between CAD 22 and what might be more reasonable, there really isn't any difference between what your wife would expect to/from the EU.

A more fruitful avenue here would be for your wife to claim against her travel interruption insurance.
The bolded part is important. Agents are lazy and will often say "no" to avoid the hassle of searching for availability on other flights. If you call and say "I want to be rerouted onto flight #xxx, I have already checked and there is positive space" you will have a much better probability of getting what you want.
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Old May 22, 2016, 7:46 pm
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Aah, the Aeroplan forum at its best in greeting a newcomer and not reading any posts but their own, par for the course!

The OP never even implied that he was seeking EU compensation, he was MERELY asking if there was anything comparable in Canada. He was informed there was not, that's it, that's all. Don't know what all the rest of the posts are going on about, reading comprehension for the win!
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Old May 22, 2016, 8:23 pm
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I really doubt there would be EU compensation for a similar problem in Europe, other than paying for hotel and food.
I beg to differ. I was left stuck overnight in DUS last year with Air Berlin due to issues "outside of the airline's control" and still got granted the entire 250 EUR per pax (eventhough the ticket only cost about 50 EUR!).

A judge in the UK also ruled recently that bird strikes do count http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/ne...n-judge-rules/.

I don't agree that a birdstrike warrants this much compensation. I'm a commercial pilot so fully understand the safety implications of dispatching with a defective aircraft. But if there was something more available for her, then why not come on here and ask? If anyone could give me a straight answer, it should be the regulars who are au fait with Air Canada and passenger rights in Canada for that matter.

It does not sound as though you proposed any other specific reroute. Perhaps had your wife (not you) done so, she might have received that. It is often the case that carriers will do what is asked if something is proposed. Harried agents at the airport will often do what is asked when presented with the exact flight numbers.
I know that this is the case, all airlines are the same, but I disagree that I should have to make multiple phone calls and/or check availability myself. When I got the e-mail from Air Canada to say the flight was cancelled, I was on a bus (in Montreal actually, I'm here for work!), with only my BlackBerry for internet access and just about to walk in to a 2 hour briefing. I didn't have the luxury of logging on to a PC to check all available options. Unfortunately, she also lost her cellphone on this trip and so the first I was able to talk to her was when she got on to WiFi at the airport hotel. If she'd called me whilst still at the airport, I would have told her to stand firm and demand a better solution than the one she was given!
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Old May 22, 2016, 8:31 pm
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Originally Posted by AllTheNines
I know that this is the case, all airlines are the same, but I disagree that I should have to make multiple phone calls and/or check availability myself. When I got the e-mail from Air Canada to say the flight was cancelled, I was on a bus (in Montreal actually, I'm here for work!), with only my BlackBerry for internet access and just about to walk in to a 2 hour briefing. I didn't have the luxury of logging on to a PC to check all available options. Unfortunately, she also lost her cellphone on this trip and so the first I was able to talk to her was when she got on to WiFi at the airport hotel. If she'd called me whilst still at the airport, I would have told her to stand firm and demand a better solution than the one she was given!
Use TripCase or TripIt Pro, mobile apps which once you load your itinerary (by forwarding the email confirmation) will show you nearly all alternate possibilities in one tap.
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